Many people mistakenly think of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) solely as a condition in which people wash their hands excessively or check door locks repeatedly. There are actually many sub-types of OCD. In this five-part series, the OCD Center of Los Angeles discusses Gay OCD, also known as HOCD or Sexual Orientation OCD.
So, Am I Gay or What?
I sat down to write this blog on Gay OCD while my wife and I had started to watch a movie (It’s been suggested I work too much). It’s either irony or personalization, but the opening scene of the movie involves a man kissing his lover… another man. This is the second film in two weeks that I’ve rented which involve men and their male lovers, something I was not aware of when I selected the films.
Or was I?
Gay OCD is sometimes referred to as HOCD, an abbreviation for Homosexual Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. This is an unfortunate abbreviation because it misses the true nature of this manifestation of OCD.
First, it is not exclusive to heterosexuals. Over the years, therapists here at OCD Center of Los Angeles have treated many homosexuals (male and female) who are plagued by obsessive fears of being “straight”, and who suffer equally when OCD attacks their sexual identity. Furthermore, the fears that clients with this condition report have little to do with actually becoming gay (or straight). At its core, Sexual Orientation OCD is the fear of not knowing for sure, paired with the fear of never being able to have a healthy, loving relationship with a partner to whom one feels genuinely attracted.
Similarly, someone with contamination fears may on the surface appear to be overly concerned with dirt, but this fear is indicative of an overwhelming fear of never feeling clean again. “If I don’t wash my hands, I will feel this way forever and nothing will be right in the world”. For every cry of “does this mean I’m gay?” there appears to be a louder cry of “does this mean I can’t be heterosexual anymore?”
In our experience with these clients, it also appears to have little to do with homophobia or bigotry. On the contrary, these clients are often quite open- minded on issues related to sexual orientation. In fact, it is their own lack of bigotry that often ends up being a fear trigger. One notable exception is cultural bigotry in which part of their Sexual Orientation OCD is fueled by the broader societal beliefs of the sufferer’s culture of origin. For simplicity’s sake, we will refer to “gay” throughout the rest of this article to describe any sexual orientation that is not one’s own. For those who are homosexual but have obsessive fears of “straightness” please substitute the appropriate word.
One thing that has struck us as bizarrely consistent is that OCD sufferers who obsess about their sexual identity seem notably less “gay” than me. Allow me to illustrate:
- Picture a man who loves the arts, has no interest in sports, admires electronic music, doesn’t “pull chicks” at the bar and feels little discomfort in the presence of naked men in the gym locker room. Obviously gay, right? But then, that describes me, despite the fact that I am straight.
- So what is the opposite of me? A man who loves watching sweaty guys fight over a ball, admires music fronted by long-haired androgynous men singing about love, and showers at home to avoid naked guys… Well, this sounds pretty gay too.
So this is what happens when your OCD locks in on sexual orientation. Whoever you are, whatever you do, suddenly seems gay. Just as the selective abstraction found in Contamination OCD makes it appear that dirt is everywhere, so does this same distortion make gayness appear to be hunting you down.
When this form of the OCD is in full swing, sufferers tend to over-attend to any indication that their “sexual orientation of origin” may somehow be “compromised”. Since anxiety, distraction, and a lack of being “in the moment” are likely to make sexual experiences less gratifying, this often becomes a major trigger. “If I don’t always want to have straight sex, I must be gay (or bi, or trans, or asexual or…)!” And the idea that their libido is actually compromised as a result of the anxiety and obsessions that they experience due to their OCD just sounds like an excuse, or even outright denial, rather than a rational argument. You simply cannot win when you play OCD’s game – OCD cheats.
Many people who suffer from Sexual Orientation OCD get stuck on the notion that they may or may not find someone attractive and that this may or may not mean something important about them sexually. If they see a member of the same sex, they feel it is possible that the “seeing” was really intentional “looking” and that this intentional looking indicates a secret sexual desire. They will often then attend to and monitor their genitalia to check for arousal in an attempt to prove or disprove the theory. This often backfires since attention causes sensation. This, by the way, is true of other body parts as well. When you consider picking something up with your hands, the brain actually sends a priming impulse to the hand before you’ve even made a decision to move.
It is important to recognize the fundamental error in the line of thinking that pairs acknowledgment of attractiveness with sexual desire. Attraction is a word we use to describe the feeling of being pulled into something, like a magnet. We generally conceptualize this feeling of being pulled-in as evidence of our desire to be near someone or something. This idea is troubling for the OCD sufferer who feels a strong need for certainty about the meaning of attraction, particularly when the false assumption is being made that all attraction is sexual attraction.
I often hear the question, “Am I attracted to this person?” from my clients. I’m never quite sure how to answer it because it is a loaded question. The words themselves only ask if the identified object is one they feel compelled to be near. Furthermore, the reason for the attraction could be any number of things, positive or negative. But the meaning my clients are hinting at is usually more along the lines of, “Do I desire to have sexual intercourse with this person?” The idea that I personally could even know what another person truly desires indicates an error in information processing. What is more striking is the fact that their OCD does not allow them to consider the possibility of being attracted to someone, while concurrently not wanting to engage in sexual behavior with that person.
Every person is capable of identifying others as “attractive”. This means that a person, regardless of gender, meets some set of criteria that is personally and culturally seen as attractive. For Westerners, this may have something to do with musculature, bone structure, and/or facial symmetry. But according to researchers, ancient Mayans apparently had a cultural preference for those who were cross-eyed and had flat foreheads. In other words, “attractive” is not a fixed concept, and has different meaning for different people.
When we look at an attractive landscape in nature, we desire to be near it. When we see an attractive person, this also compels us to linger. In some cases it may be envy that draws us in. Saying, for example, “I wish I had a body like that.” But in many cases, it’s just giving a thumbs-up to the universe. “Good one, Universe, you made an attractive person”. But for the person suffering with Gay OCD, this triggers abject horror.
I often get asked the question, “Do you think I’m gay?”. After the usual therapist-speak of “Does my opinion matter? Why do you want to know? And what would it mean to you if I thought you were?”, I suggest that my clients study the evidence with me. The test is not very thorough. It has one, simple question, with a few optional follow-ups:
“Do you like to have gay sex?”
That’s pretty much all we need to know in order to determine whether or not we should get busy with the work of treating their OCD.
We have seen clients with OCD who also happen to be gay. They obsess about the same things that other OCD sufferers struggle with, except quite notably that they don’t obsess about their sexual orientation. The only exceptions to this are gay clients who obsess about the possibility that they might actually be straight. And I have never had a homosexual client tell me they weren’t sure if they liked homosexual sex.
On the other hand, for straight individuals with Gay OCD, their biggest fear is often that they will seek therapy for unwanted thoughts about their sexual orientation, and that the therapist will tell them that these thoughts indicate that they must actually be gay. Unfortunately, this often happens when clients end up with ill-informed treatment providers who don’t understand what constitutes Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and illuminates the importance of finding a therapist who thoroughly understands OCD and its appropriate treatment with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
To put it as simply as possible, gay thoughts are not unwanted by homosexuals. For homosexuals, gay thoughts are what psychologists call ego-syntonic thoughts. That’s just a fancy way of saying that their gay thoughts are in keeping with their true values and desires. Conversely, for heterosexuals, gay thoughts are ego-dystonic, which simply means that the thoughts are in opposition to their true values and beliefs. Furthermore, gay people like to have gay sex, while straight people with Sexual Orientation OCD are terrified of having gay sex.
To take our free confidential online test for Gay OCD / HOCD, click here.
Part two of this series provides an in-depth explanation of how we treat Sexual Orientation OCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), with an emphasis on Mindfulness, Cognitive Restructuring, and Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP). Part two can be found at https://ocdla.com/sexual-orientation-hocd-gay-ocd-treatment-2-1970/.
Part three of this series provides an in-depth explanation various sub-types of Sexual Orientation OCD, and variations in their treatment CBT, ERP, and mindfulness. Part three can be found at https://ocdla.com/sexual-orientation-ocd-hocd-sub-types-treatment-1975/.
Part four of this series examines common challenges seen in the course of treating Sexual Orientation OCD. Part four can be found at https://ocdla.com/sexual-orientation-ocd-challenges-treatment-hocd-1978/.
Part five: You can click here to read our article “HOCD: 30 Things You Need To Know”.
•The OCD Center of Los Angeles is a private, outpatient clinic specializing in Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for the treatment of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and related anxiety based conditions. In addition to individual therapy, the center offers five weekly therapy groups, as well as online therapy, telephone therapy, and intensive outpatient treatment. To contact the OCD Center of Los Angeles, click here.
752 Comments
This article is a terrific explanation of HOCD, appealing to the confused reader or the reader with some knowledge on the subject.
I learned a lot about my thoughts from this article and I am thrilled to have found it.
Thank you.
hi can u help. When I was younger I was abused. It did feel like abuse I dont know whether it was experiences or not. This went on for about a year or to. I was around 8- 10 years of age. I then had 2 more gay eposides. This was not as bad as before. Growing up going to school I always fancyed girls and considered myself to be hetrosexual. It did affect me with girls as the abuse confused me a bit. I was 18 when I slept with a girl for the first time. I enjoy sex with a girl. I had a few girlfriends after that nothing serious. I was 23 when I got with my fiancee now im 33. I am happy with her. Suppose I have always had some sort of gay thoughts. But the last 2 weeks have been hell constantly looking at men do I fancy them. i have tryed looking at gay porn doesnt turn me it it repulses me. I watch straight porn and lesbian porn i do get horny but when im finished it doesnt feel good. Could I have HOCD or be in denial or bisexual. I love my girlfriend and my family. just cant understand how these thoughts have just come back into my head.
Hi Keith,
These thoughts have recently come back into your head for a very simple reason..because thoughts are not controllable, and they can come into your head any time at all. Trying to to control what thoughts pop into your head is a losing cause, and will likely become a counterproductive compulsion. Likewise, trying to figure out why any particular thought pops into your head is a complete waste of time, and is also likely to become a compulsion. Furthermore, testing yourself by watching gay porn is a compulsion.
Your many years of being straight provide ample evidence that you are straight. And having been abused as a child does not make one gay – its makes one a survivor of abuse.
Finally remember this very simple dictum – thoughts are just thoughts.
So I am 100% affected by this. But it was not until I took anabolic steroids that I was hit with depression and such. I have never been attracted to the same sex. Ever. There’s never been a time where I felt aroused or sexually attracted to the same sex (the only time I could think of was when I was tricked by a transsexual, who I thought was a woman on a dating site but then was disgusted when I realized and saw close up in a picture.) There’s been no want or urge to engage in sexual contact ever with anyone of the same sex.
So when all of a sudden one day I was hit with no sex drive and libido, my first thought was somehow being gay. Let me be clear I still have enjoyable sex with my gf and I still have no homosexual urges. What I do have is this over and above anxiety about this issue and I do not have any idea where it came from. I was always comfortable in my sexuality, to be honest I still am. I just have the incessant worry I’ll never enjoy women again (The loss in libido is due to steroid use and hit me clear out of the blue.
Brian,
This all sounds like HOCD to me.
You say that you have “incessant worry I’ll never enjoy women again”, yet you also say that you “still have enjoyable sex” with your girlfriend. So it seems to me that your fear is contradicted by reality.
Also, you note that the anabolic steroids have had a negative effect on your libido. I am not an MD, so I cannot provide you with medical advice about steroids. But I can encourage you to discuss this issue of reduced libido related to steroids with a doctor.
Hello again sorry to bother anyone but I’m as you probably know from me posting here I’m a 17 year old boy I had hocd for about 3 months and I was terrified that I was gay because I’ve always been attracted to women and seeked relationships with women ect. But I’m even more terrified now because I’m terrified that I’m attracted to women I don’t get it 2 weeks ago I was in love with this girl and she rejected me and now 2 weeks later I woke up thinking about women and now I’m terrified of women,sex,relationships, and that bothers me because It feels like i want a man but at the same time i know I’m straight it’s killing me i want to be straight but it feels like I don’t want women it feels like I don’t want anything straight and it bothers me because gay people with hocd are terrified of being straight and it feels like I’m terrified of being straight I don’t get it I was terrified of being gay avoiding men and seeking reassurance that I’m not gay I had every symptom of a straight person with hocd and I was getting better feeling like my straight self again and now I’m terrified of women I need advice I wish I was still terrified of being gay please I don’t want to be gay help!!!
Alan/Ryan,
Yes, this sounds like HOCD. I encourage you to get into treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) focused on a specific CBT technique called Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).
I can’t figure out how to post on here and need help. I was diagnosed with hocd by 2 therapists. I have previously watched lesbian pirn and been aroused. I posted on my ocd Facebook group and someone who is bisexual told me I have ” internalized homophobia” 😭😭😭 I don’t know how to handle this anymore it’s been a year. I’ve never wanted to date a girl or sleep with one. I even looked uo naked pics of ” vaginas” and full blow gagged to my phone screen. I am so lost and need more help.
Hi Abbey,
Thank you for your replies and your patience in us responding back! I am so sorry you are going through this in your struggle with Sexual Orientation OCD (SO-OCD). Having OCD can be so difficult and confusing, especially when it relates to arousal, including groin responses. Because our brains can so quickly make associations to sexual related stimuli, we often can misinterpret those signals/experiences in our thoughts, emotions, body, and even behavior (compulsions). What can be so helpful to someone struggling with this concern, is to just focus on and come back to the treatment, and continuing to grown in understanding of the OCD and the human experience, including its tricks/misinterpretations that can present.
Wishing you well, and hang in there. This is so difficult and can get better!
Hi, I am a 21 year old girl and my whole life I have never ever questioned my sexuality as I have always had boyfriends and have always loved them and enjoyed straight sex. About 2 weeks ago one of my friends came out that she was bisexual and ever since, every single second of the day I am doubting my sexual orientation and it has got that bad I am thinking that it might feel nice to have sex with a girl. But before my friend come out as bi, I have never ever had these thoughts and I always thought about straight sex and had massive crushes on boys. I only ever thought certain girls where pretty and thats as far as it went. I cant stop thinking about this and its driving me crazy ever day! I just want to know what’s happening inside my head. Why do I all of a sudden question my sexual orientation??
B,
What’s happening inside your head sounds to me like textbook HOCD. And the reason you are suddenly questioning your orientation is because that’s what HOCD does to a person.
I encourage you to remind yourself that human brains think all sorts of unrealistic and unimportant things, and that you do not need to pay attention to such thoughts. Just accept that these weird thoughts exist in your consciousness, without assuming that they mean something important. They are just thoughts that deserve no attention whatsoever.
27 yr old Male
26yrs Ive been attracted to women, never questioned it
I went to a doctor for My anxiety, i got benzo. car accident and got tramadol. Then I read that these pills could turn u gay. Then I had a gay dream and after that I cant even look when a guy shows a bit of his stomach without having a groinal respons. The intrusive thoughts about naked men are killing me, I dont want to be gay but how do i know when all these thoughts keeps coming back?
My interest for sex with Girls has dicreased. I don’t want to be in a rel. W a man. I love m gf
Is it True that these meds can Change your sexual orientation? do I have HOCD? Or have I just turned gay?
Ollie,
I don’t know where you read that Tramadol makes people gay, but that is utter nonsense.
Everything else you write sounds like HOCD. I encourage you to find a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
Hi, I’m 18 right now, but my HOCD started when I was 14, when I was sexually harassed by an older man. I remember false attractions and anxiety. I was also sexually exploited by a peer and all of this convinced me I was bisexual. My peer made me feel like I wanted to engage in sexual activities with him when I knew I didn’t. I remember trying to stay away from him because I knew I didn’t want this but i felt like I must be bi and want this. I hated the experience and it caused a series of breakdowns for me. I’ve only ever felt actually attracted to, liked and dated girls. I feel that because I engaged in sexual activities with a male peer even though he coerced me and I was 15-16 at the time that I must still be bisexual. What should I do?
Artemis,
I’m sorry other that you experienced these abusive behaviors. I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who treats both OCD and trauma.
All that being said, I encourage you to read our article “HOCD: 30 Things You Need To Know” at https://ocdla.com/hocd-30-things-you-need-to-know-5522/, especially items #9, #10, and #11 in that article.
This was an excellent article. As someone who suffered this theme and is now coming out of it, it is one of the best descriptions as to why I suffered. Most people I’ve discussed this with sadly confuse it with internalized homophobia and don’t understand that the real issue is I want to be with women and women only.
One thing that has always bothered me when reading literature on this theme though is the description of ego-syntonic. Where do people who are gay but in denial fit in with this? Take, for example, a gay person from a religious sect that condemns homosexuality. In this case, he desires to have gay sexual relations conflicts with his values.
This issue never really applied to me personally, but I would appreciate some clarification on the issue.
Hi Anthony, that’s an excellent question. It is sometimes the case that a homosexual person who has rigid cultural beliefs about homosexuality may wish NOT to be homosexual and attempt to suppress their thoughts of homosexuality to avoid what they see as negative consequences. However, the thoughts here are still ego-syntonic, even if unwanted, because they still fit in with a core reality consistent with other thoughts they may have. They don’t look at the homosexual thought and feel that it doesn’t make sense why it is there. They look at it and say it is something they DO feel and simply wish they didn’t.
In other words, ego-dystonic would be believing you are NOT gay and yet feeling bombarded by gay thoughts that seem alien to you, whereas ego-syntonic would apply to knowing you ARE gay and having gay thoughts that are consistent with your internal reality, regardless of whether the thoughts were ones you thought were acceptable.
This is really scaring me I’m a 17 year old male and have suffered from what I hope is hocd and I keep imagining myself with a man but it doesn’t disgust me and to make things I experimented alot with the same sex from 13-16 years old and that has convinced me I’m gay but I don’t want to be I have had crushes on girls and I have never kissed a girl and every girl I’ve asked out on a date they have said no but the thing is when i first woke up the thought I’m gay came into my head and my heart dropped with fear and anxiety I told my gran what was going on and she said she doesn’t have a clue what I’m talking about that was 5 months ago my parents know about this and i don’t have the anxiety anymore but the thoughts are still there along with feelings I am seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist who said I have ocd but I just keep doubting it and I have been prescribed setraline 125 mg but It doesn’t do anything to help that’s another reason why i doubt myself can somebody help me I’m don’t want to be gay I want to be straight somebody please help me
Alan,
You sound like you genuinely want help for HOCD. That said, posting comments on this blog is not an effective means to getting the help. I have no idea if your psychologist truly understand OCD and how to treat it (most don’t). If he/she is an OCD specialist, stick with the treatment. If he/she is not an OCD specialist, then don’t waste any more time and instead find a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
I do want help but i am convinced that I’m gay or at the very least bi because when i Experimented with the same sex i felt pleasure and enjoyed the feeling of that pleasure but I never thought about being with someone of the same gender I always wanted to be with a girl I had fantasies about girls and enjoyed getting attention from girls can someone who is straight feel pleasure from being intimate with someone who is their same gender i just want to be straight and happy with a beautiful woman who I can enjoy sex with but I feels like I can’t and that irritates me can someone please help me!!!
Alan,
Of course your same sex behavior felt good. I am guessing that if you masturbated rubbing your penis against an old shoe that you would enjoy the orgasm. That wouldn’t mean that you are sexually attracted to old shoes. It would mean that your penis responded to masturbating. Not much of a surprise there.
I encourage you to read our article HOCD: 30 Things You Need to Know, which clearly points out that a history of experimentation with the same sex does not mean one is gay. It means that person experimented with same sex behavior, which is extremely common in kids and teens.
I know it was 3 months ago you replied to my comment and thank you my life was fine in July and August I was feeling like myself again and I wanted a girlfriend but know it feels like I don’t want one and it irritates me so much and I’ll give you information on my symptoms when it first began in February this year. I woke up in my grans house and the first thing in my mind was I’m gay I started panicking and felt like I couldn’t breathe after that I paced back in forth trying to make sense of it from then on I couldn’t eat I couldn’t sleep I was constantly crying to myself and to my mom I would avoid going outside because I didn’t want to see a man eventually my mom was really concerned and googled everything and she found something called HOCD and the symptoms were exactly the same as mine at first I felt relieved but like all reassurence it lasted 30 minutes. Also, I have a really bad porn addiction and I masturbate to straight or lesbian porn at least 5 times a day. I need advice please.
Alan,
You ask for advice, so here goes…
This all sounds like classic HOCD.
Avoiding going outside because you might see males is a compulsion. It will make your HOCD worse, not better.
I have a hard time imagining a gay male masturbating 5 times a day, every day, to straight and lesbian porn. Gay men would generally prefer to see two males getting it on.
That said, if you have a porn addiction, you should seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating compulsive sex.
As for the HOCD, you should seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
I have gay thoughts and sometimes feelings although they are out of line with who I want to be because I am a happily married man who wants to continue living as a heterosexual. To me, the thoughts and feelings I experience are therefore ego dystonic. Would that be the case? I have managed what I thought to be hocd since I was 23 (now around 33). Thank you for the articles.
Greg,
Yes, when you say that your thoughts are “out of line with who (you) want to be”, that is an almost perfect description of the term “ego-dystonic”.
I have history of crushes on girls, and my mind tells me that I had a crush on one guy when I was a kid. When I was 12 I discovered porn, and then I discovered gay porn. First it was fun, but then I got depressed because of it. I had gay fantasies but do not know of ego dystonic or syntonic, I would jerk off, and then cry. However, now I am 22 and married to woman, but I again have these thoughts of me thinking that I am gay, which makes me depressed. I check in my mind would I enjoy gay sex, and two days ago, I had an urge to play with one of my wife’s toy. After that I felt so guilty and again depressed.
I am thinking about this all day, I even sometimes want to die. Don’t know if HOCD or gay who wants to suppress homosexuality?
ScaredDepressed,
Sounds like HOCD to me.
This is a very interesting article on H-OCD, thank you. You have probably dealt with patients who had dreams connected to HOCD while it was at its peak.
Can you please clarify how those thoughts can sneak up in dreams? Speaking for myself I never had any dreams of such content before OCD struck me. Its now 10 months that I have been struggling with this disorder and I’ve probably had 4 dreams about it in total already. They had nothing to do with sex itself, but mostly with situations which might escalate to sex. I always wake up before feeling that great anxiety.
I thought that OCD could live only while you are awake. I understand that this looks like reassurance seeking, but it is a really weird moment for me and many other fellow OCD’ers. And I’ve read some articles, which stated that OCD can work only in waking mind.
Thank you for your question, and yes, I have seen ocd sufferers with all kinds of obsessions get very upset about their dreams.
The first step to understanding treatment for HOCD is accepting that we cannot control our thoughts. We can control our behavior, which may lead to thoughts presenting themselves in different ways, but we don’t pick and choose what thoughts happen and what thoughts don’t. Since this is clear in waking life, I see no reason to think the rules are any different when we are asleep. Thoughts happen. Dreams happen.
An anxious person may recall a small bit of dreaming and they may identify the dream as anxious (being chased, for example). A person spending much of their time compulsively analyzing thoughts about sexual orientation is likely to remember dreams about sexual orientation. Whether they are actually HAVING more of these dreams or just over-attending to them is impossible to know for certain. In any case, I can state with confidence that I have had dreams of all kinds of behavior throughout my life and so far this has provided me with no useful information about who I am.
I’m not sure what articles you are referring to that state that ocd issues do not appear in dreams. I would be interested to read them as this theory runs counter to what many of my clients have reported.
Please I need serious help now I feel anxious about women I’m actually crying as I’m writing this because I just feel like dying right now because i feel attracted to women but why i’m I anxious in my heart I’ve always liked women had crushes on them been attracted to them ect. And now I feel I don’t want a woman and that terrifies me so much because about a week ago I wanted a girlfriend and now I’m anxious about women I still feel straight it’s just I don’t know why I feel so anxious thinking about dating or having sex with a woman up until last week i loved fantasizing about the girl of my dreams and now it feels like I’m to scared I need help badly because I’m driving myself insane because I just want my lust and courage for women to return and it feels like I will never be able to love a woman ever again and I’m so terrified btw ever since I was diagnosed with ocd this is the time I’ve been most frightened in my entire life please someone help me!!!
Alan,
This is the fourth time you have posted comments to this blog, each time asking for help. I have noted in my prior replies that this is not the way to get serious help, and I have encouraged you to seek treatment. Simply put, posting comments on blog articles, is not a substitute for therapy. I STRONGLY encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) focused on a specific CBT technique called Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).
Is a pity I can’t link to those articles – there were two of them, both written in my native language (I am not from an English speaking country). The idea was that OCD requires a high state of awareness and brain activity to do its best. And while we sleep, our brain is in a state of activity which is not active enough to trigger obsessions.
Besides, I am sure I never had any thoughts or dreams like that before, and I am close to 30 years old. On the one hand that signals that there’s no ground behind obsessions, but on the other, dreams are completely confusing. Probably one can feel any type of feelings in dreams, especially obsessing over them all day long, so they might be induced. And Freud theories makes it even more confusing…
The theory about heightened awareness having something to do with having Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is interesting, but not backed up by any of the scientific research I have seen. The ideas you are alluding to may have something to do with how you are defining the word “obsession” as I can find no rational argument to support the idea that certain kinds of thoughts are prohibited from occuring while a person is alive.
There are a lot of theories about the mechanisms of ocd, but only evidence-based treatment protocols have demonstrated consistent effectiveness.
The statement that you have “never” had certain dreams implies that you have memory of all of your dreams, which would make you quite unique indeed. It is commonly accepted that roughly 95% of dreams are not remembered, due in part to the fact that you are not converting short-term to long-term memory when in REM sleep. The fact that you are recently aware of certain dreams only suggests that they are particularly memorable to you.
I agree that dreams are confusing. I also agree that Freudian theories are confusing. If you take a look at some of what Freud had written about ocd (which he called obsessional neurosis), it is clear that he believed it was essentially impossible to treat. This is because his theories are of no use to the treatment of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
Great posts and great comments too. I am struggling/battling this form of OCD and definitely get hung up on the EGO Dystonic stuff too. I can quickly fall into the ruminating side of things trying to “figure out” if my thoughts are truly in-compatible with how I see myself , or if perhaps I have just “trained” myself well from a young age.
The dream thing also hangs me up. I recently have had dreams with some gay content (sex only once), and also woke up extremely anxious and panicky. I can only think that, like Dr. Hershfield said – I have “flagged” these thoughts/dreams as dangerous and therefore and noticing them.
Thank you so much for this article. I have struggled with various forms of OCD for most of my life (I’m a 23-year-old female), and HOCD has been the most recent manifestation of this struggle, plaguing me for about a year now. I have been doing much better in recent months due to some help from new medication and am talking to a counselor, but I still get hung up on certain thoughts and ideas.
One worry I keep coming back to is that I have, at various points during adolescence, wondered or briefly worried about the possibility of being gay. None of these episodes were as intense or lasted as long as the one I’m currently in, and therefore I’m compelled to think of them not as OCD-related but as actual questioning and fear about my sexual identity. Which then leads to the question: if that wasn’t OCD, who’s to say there’s not a grain of truth in my current worryings?
My mom would tell me (and has) that even those earlier questions didn’t mean anything given my tendency to worry and over-analyze in many different areas of my life. So I guess my question at this point is, is it possible for a person’s intermittent adolescent fears about being homosexual/bisexual to be symptomatic of OCD even if they didn’t exhibit the intensity & longevity of full-blown HOCD? I guess it’s hard for me to conceptualize the boundaries of OCD, if there are any.
Again, thanks so much for such an articulate and encouraging article.
Thanks for the comments, Elizabeth. I think there are two things to consider here. First, your ocd says that you must be certain as to what is ocd and what is not, so it sends you on an endless quest to know for sure what a thought may or may not have meant at some point in your past. Your current challenge is to confront the discomfort of never knowing for sure if one of your thoughts had some sort of special meaning and you missed it. In other words, don’t be ocd about your ocd or you will be inclined to obsess about everything.
But if we choose to investigate this thought from your past and try to come up with some sort of explanation, I think it can best be summed up as “so what?” Why is having thoughts with little anxiety about one’s sexuality mutually exclusive from having unwanted intrusive ocd thoughts with lots of anxiety? In either case, the thoughts themselves are normal chemical events. The only thing that sets them apart is the reaction you have to them. The reason your reaction is different now is because now it appears to be working for the ocd. Perhaps the issue of sexuality had a somewhat different meaning in adolescence than it does in young adulthood. That would be normal.
Having a grain of truth in an ocd thought does not make a difference. There is a grain of truth that I may get a disease from the germs on this keyboard as I type this. This does not mean the thought is rational or worth responding to.
Ultimately, it is possible that it was ocd and it is possible that it wasn’t (or perhaps it was both!), but knowing this does not provide you with useful information for getting better. Therefore, trying to get a definitive answer should be looked at as a compulsion.
Thank you so much for your response. It has given me a lot to consider and absorb. It’s interesting – you say, “Having a grain of truth in an OCD thought does not make a difference,” while my OCD mind says, “Having a grain of truth in an OCD thought makes all the difference in the world and would be reason enough to send you spiraling into despair.” I know OCD sufferers often have all-or-nothing thinking; here that’s manifested as the belief that if I can label all my sexuality-related thoughts as OCD, and therefore not relevant to my true sexual identity, I’ll know I have nothing to worry about. It is hard – very, very hard – to think about it in the terms you suggest. Thanks again for your response.
I am delighted to have discovered this article. From what I have researched in comparison to my thoughts/feelings it seems I am suffering from HOCD.
I have been suffering from this for over four months now. I say suffer because it really is hugely trying. These ‘thoughts’ cropped literally out of nowhere and were HUGELY distressing. I consequently had huge panic attacks, I was constantly anxious and the thoughts were completely alien to me and essentially attacked who I was as I am happily engaged to my Fiance.
However, the problem I now have is that the thoughts are so constant, literally from the moment I wake to the moment I fall asleep I have almost got used to the thoughts which has led me to believe perhaps I am gay. It seems almost that I have conditioned myself to think I am gay and feel that I am compared to being straight! This OCD feels like it is shifting my outlook on who I am.
My question is whether this is possible?
Apologies for the length of this post I just feel really lost as having previously approached a counselor it seemed that I was suggesting I was just in denial.
Many thanks for your time.
Thank you for your comments, Jade. I’m glad the article resonated with you. I have frequently seen what you describe happen before. Since the issue at hand is neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality, but an intolerance of uncertainty, some people find themselves working on a “convincing” compulsion that is the reverse of their original response. The idea is that this will at least relieve them of obsessing, even if it means being something that is fundamentally untrue. It ultimately backfires and leads to more obsessive-compulsive behavior.
Another related phenomenon is something called a “backdoor spike” in which an HOCD sufferer gets upset by the notion that they are not upset ENOUGH about gay thoughts to still be straight. You can read more about backdoor spikes in our article about challenges to overcoming HOCD.
In addition to Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) strategies for the fear of being gay, you might also benefit from using the same strategies to confront the idea of missing out on secretly being gay or never knowing for sure.
Congratulations on being engaged!
Hey, I really liked the article. The one thing that freaked me out was the whole one question you ask. I did things when I was younger (even like 13 and 14) with those of the same sex, but it was always because I liked how it felt, yet I never felt an attraction for the same sex whatsoever. I then went on to date a girl and completely forgot about those times until all this started. I have always been attracted to girls, but if I could enjoy gay sex due to the feel but not attraction does that make me gay? I’ve had anxiety for so many years, but this hocd is the absolute worst! Thank you for any response.
Thank you so much for your reply, you have given me alot of insight into what seems to be a living nightmare at the moment.
Glad you liked the article, James. I think you bring up a good example of how cunning ocd can be. It can take a question like “Do you like to have gay sex?” which I interpret as meaning something like “would you rather be having same-sex intercourse than having this conversation?” and slyly turns it into a question about whether or not gay sex is fundamentally enjoyable.
This is a trap. Of course sexual stimulation is sexually stimulating, so the issue of whether or not it is enjoyable is separate from whether or not you are oriented to prefer it. Something feeling good is a different concept from being sexually attracted to the person who helps you achieve that feeling.
Another point worth commenting on is that sexual behavior at the age you describe engaging in it is a fundamentally different experience than adult sexual behavior. It may involve the same mechanisms, but the psychosexual brain development is truly different. In short, experimentation is not orientation. Your OCD challenge is to accept that whatever happened, simply happened, and analyzing it to get certainty about its meaning is a compulsion.
I hope I am not being bothersome, but saying that would I rather be having it right now rather than this conversation still not prove it since it can be enjoyable and me still not be gay? Sorry for all the analysis. Also, I’m only 20 but always felt I was straight. You talked about hormones. Could that have changed my sexual orientation?
Thank you for any answers.
James, I think you are missing the point, which is that trying to “prove” your sexual orientation is the problem, not the solution. If you spent this much time trying to prove the sky was blue, it would start to seem green.
I have not heard of hormones changing an individual’s sexual orientation.
I enjoyed your article very much. I agree that calling this kind of OCD, HOCD is a slight misinterpretation. As for me it is better to call it Sexual Orientation Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (SOOCD).
I’m going through this nightmare since August 2009. My personality seems to change and nothing looks to be the same as before. But in heart I know that it’s a disorder, and that my personality remains the same. I hope.
In fact, I consider myself to be a gay man. In the past I had problems in relationships with other guys and it may be a real root of the whole matter at hand. In the last month of 2009 I was on the verge of collapse, I had terrible suicidal thoughts – I thought I can’t stand it longer. I wasn’t aware I had OCD then. When I realized it was OCD (in February 2010) I started to use supplements like inositol, B Vitamin Complex, Omega Fatty Acids and some more. I was very exhausted and couldn’t think clearly.
In fact, nowadays I know that I fear of becoming a straight man and I am doing a (I want to put it in good English) a sort of mind checking and reassuring, i.e. at first I deliberately popped up images of women genitals to find whether it aroused me – but now my mind does it in an automatic manner. But still it is a sort of self-thought-checking. It is as if I was in hell already.
I also sometimes went to heterosexual pornographic sites (which I hate), as a sort of compulsion for sure. I always admire the guys – but then, the anxiety comes into picture and again pictures of women come to my mind as way to reassure I am still gay. I much more prefered (and prefer) to see women in an unsexual manner. For me it’s horrible, disgusting and out of this world.
My blood test turned to be ok, with slightly too much sugar (112) for an empty stomach. I’m very reluctant to seek for psychologist/psychiatrist aid as I think I will be misunderstood. I live in Poland and I know that these doctors prescribe only chemical medicine. Sorry for the lengthy post.
Hi Luke, glad you liked the article.
It seems pretty clear that you are dealing with this form of OCD, which involves obsessive thoughts about sexual orientation, and using compulsive strategies in an effort to gain certainty about it. I wish we had a better name than HOCD, but I imagine some people might object to calling it SO OCD! The truth is all of these abbreviations are generally unhelpful since they all represent variations on the same problem (regardless of one’s actual sexual orientation).
It sounds like some of what you are doing involves exposure (watching straight porn), but not response prevention (you are trying to prove you are gay instead of accepting whatever thoughts happen), so the end result is sensitization instead of habituation. I encourage you to read our article about HOCD treatment in order to get a better understanding of this form of OCD.
I’m not sure the distinction of OCD medication as somehow being more “chemical” than other things is a helpful one. The world is made up of chemicals, and some of them in certain combinations seem to help to reduce OCD symptoms. Since the issue you describe is an OCD problem, you may benefit from seeking OCD treatment. In any case, without access to a suitable treatment provider in your area, you may have to educate yourself about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for OCD through some of the available books.
Thank you for ascertaining me that the whole thing I experience is OCD – as I sensed.
In fact, as a child I had Tourette’s syndrome, as an adolescent I had major eating disorder, an episode of hypochondriasis and fear of germs (compulsive hand washing) and then I had (for 2 months in 2007 after breaking up with a guy) mild HOCD which subsided and a major relapse of this kind of OCD in 2009 which lasts to this day.
As for chemical drugs, I had in mind that they may be addictive but nonetheless I know they are helpful. OCD is a real cheater – and it wants one to believe in its lies…
And yes – thank you for the notion of CBT – I will look for books on it (I’ve read a lot of books on OCD now). But once again thank you very much for your help!
Hi there, this is a very nice article…
I was wondering, does SOOCD make you feel like you like the thoughts?
Hi R, thanks for the question.
Thoughts are normal events that occur in the brain. Sometimes those thoughts coincide with certain feelings and sometimes this develops into a pattern we call “liking” a thought.
While by and large people experience OCD thoughts as consistently abhorrent, sometimes people experience feelings of ambivalence or even comfort by their presence. This is particularly common when one has spent a great deal of time analyzing how they are “supposed to” feel about a thought. The important point to remember is that evaluating your “liking” or “not liking” of thoughts is, in and of itself, a compulsive behavior that is not helpful.
Generally speaking, if you are saying you feel like you may like a certain thought, but then experience discomfort over that discovery, then you are still in the throes of an OCD problem.
thank you for this wonderful article !
i fight with hocd for about a year now….there were good but mostly just awful times ( like at the moment)
i was doing better but now ( i think through the bagdoor spike) i dont know who i am anymore…..my mind keeps telling me that i like this gay thoughts and that is the actual me and so on…….its very hard but i know that i have to keep strong and beat this disorder….
but ive a question too….mr. hershfield is it often the case that your clients get better and normal again ?
Hi Mohsen, glad you liked the article.
All of our clients start out normal! They are normal people who also happen to have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder which means certain thoughts appear problematic to them and their strategies for addressing this problem create a cycle that impairs their functioning. But I’ll answer your question in the spirit in which it was intended…
Yes. In my experience those clients who engage seriously in CBT, do their homework, and challenge themselves to resist compulsive behavior often see significant symptom reduction and relief.
Many people worry a great deal about the “actual” self being different than the present one. This is an OCD trap. You are a person who has thoughts. This remains true before, during, and after treatment. There is no other self. The issue you want to address is how frequent, intrusive, and powerful some of these thoughts present themselves.
Hi,
I think I speak for everyone when I say that this article is the best article ever written on HOCD and we are all very grateful that you wrote it. It is priceless.
I myself have been suffering from this disorder since October 09 and have gotten dramatically better, although there are a few things I still struggle with and I’d appreciate your opinion on the matter.
I’ll keep it simple. When I hang out with my mates I feel gay and think that others think I’m gay because I’m out hanging with males and not females (self esteem issues and I’ve always been quite shy). Likewise, if I’m hanging out with some girls who are friends I feel like people think I’m a “girlfriend” to them, hence gay. I can see how absurd this way of thinking is but I’m not sure how to change it.
I’m sorry if this is written in a way that can’t be accurately interpreted. It’s a strange situation but I’d like to know how I can re frame my mind and stop worry about this. Thoughts?
Thank you
hi, I would just like to say this is the best post iv’e seen on OCD.
However, the last few days I have 3 main worries:
1. I have spiked for nearly 4 days with hardly any moments where I feel straight
2. This is my only obsession and i only discovered HOCD websites after my first couple of days of feeling this way so maybe I could have given myself this in a moment of denial?
3. I snooze in a morning with strong feeling i’m actually gay until i wake up enough to freak out
My mind won’t stop saying i’m rejected it and i’m constantly looking at men and analyzing and sometimes finding some attraction.
sorry for the long post, but its taken over my life.
Reece, wow, that’s some compliment! Thank you for the kind words.
I think the first thing you need to come to terms with in regards to the situation you described is that you cannot win. It is not possible to win that OCD game because the rules are created by OCD and can change without warning or explanation. So trying to win, which in this case would be trying to spend the “right” amount of time with people of the “right” gender while thinking only the right thoughts, is a strategy that will fail.
A better strategy would be to hang out with people you like to hang out with and accept that your OCD may also wish to hang out with them from time to time. So if you’re hanging out with girls and your OCD says this makes you gay, just say hello to the OCD and offer it a metaphorical seat at the table without addressing the irrelevant question of whether or not you are gay. Then if at some point you are hanging out with guy friends and the OCD says this makes you gay, you can take an “oh you again” approach and accept that these are thoughts which happen to be occurring at this moment. If you can learn to allow thoughts to arrive wherever they happen to arrive, you will find that they are less likely to demand that they be invited to every party.
Hi Andrew, thanks for your comment.
1. I don’t know what it means to “feel straight” or “feel gay”, but it sounds like you are dealing with a lot of intrusive thoughts and mental rituals right now. If you are trying to feel a certain way, that should be looked at as a compulsion that is fueling the problem.
2. Late onset OCD is not uncommon, and HOCD being the first major obsession is also not uncommon. However, though it is not always true, I have encountered a lot of people who say they never had OCD before and then come to realize that they just had poor insight about some behaviors in their past which were obsessive-compulsive.
3. I’m not sure what you’re saying here but people often report OCD being in high gear first thing in the morning.
You didn’t mention anything about treatment, but it sounds like there is some depression alongside the OCD and this needs to be treated. If you do not already have a therapist, I recommend going to http://www.ocfoundation.org where they have a good list of therapists who treat OCD.
I understand I guess im just really wanting your professional opinion on the matter by what you said meaning can you enjoy it via feeling but as long as there is no physical attraction are you straight?
Bsically I’m trying to make sure its ocd
Thank you so much for your reply.
Yes my life is just constant checking and mentally trying to solve the situation, sometimes this takes up around 12 hours a day. This has being going on for four months now and has gradually got worse.
At first it seemed like textbook ocd, moments were i felt total relief through reassurance to moments were it seemed i had a total mist in front of me and can’t tell whats real and whats not.
Recently it seems to be more like 4 bad days to 1 good day, for example since i read your article i seem 70% better, not far from being myself again and my female attraction was returning, but tomorrow I could go into total relapse. I have also suffered from panic attacks were I went to hospital believing i was going to die recently, but these seemed to have gone away.
Before this i was very confident in my sexuality, but overtime lost all confidence around girls, yet had a strong desire to have a girlfriend.
It may be hard to tell but do you think this is ocd? and i relise i need to see someone soon, i just dont think i can sit in front of my doctor (im english!)
James, needing to know for sure that something is OCD is no different than needing to know for sure that you are straight or gay, which is the problem that you have, which is your OCD.
It would not be helpful for you to have me participate in these reassurance-seeking compulsions. My recommendation is that you check out http://www.ocfoundation.org and get more information on the disorder to help you understand how your analysis is fueling the problem.
Andrew, if reading anything I wrote made you feel 70% better, my guess is you have OCD and should be seeing an OCD specialist for treatment. If your doctor is not an OCD specialist, then he is not the one you should sit and talk with about this.
The UK more than likely has a few therapists who understand CBT for OCD well. Online therapy for HOCD with one of our staff therapists is also an option.
what is the difference between internalized homophobia and HOCD?
after finding out about it. it has brought me so much sadness and i just don’t know who i am anymore.
sometimes hocd feels so real and i feel as though i am in denial and i really am a lesbian..then i go on to believe i have internalized homophobia because of that and then a few days later i am straight again. i just don’t know how to feel anymore! whenever i say i am straight, it’s as if a voice in my head says no you’re not – you are in denial when hocd is at it’s worse…but when i don’t think about hocd i am attracted to men emotionally and physically. it’s just when i do think about it.. i just think that all those feelings are not real and i’m just in denial it’s so horrible.
Hi Kate, internalized homophobia is a term used to describe the experience of being homosexual and hating oneself for it because of beliefs about homosexuality being hateful. HOCD is a manifestation of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder identified by the presence of unwanted intrusive thoughts and mental or physical strategies for addressing them which impair functioning. In other words, one is a theory addressing the experience of the closeted homosexual and the other is a well understood and treatable clinical disorder.
As you noted, when you are not obsessing on the subject, you appear to feel attracted to members of the opposite sex. When you are obsessing about it, you are trapped in a futile attempt to be sure you feel a certain way about certain thoughts. The best approach would be to resist this compulsion to try to “know how you feel” and instead work on accepting that the thoughts, feelings, and sensations that you experience are not threats or calls to action.
Many people with ocd report to us that they feel they are in denial or “faking it” when they allow themselves to touch dirty doorknobs and not wash their hands or have thoughts about hurting loved ones and resist avoiding family members. This form of ocd is not unique to the ocd experience. Accept that you feel fake or in denial and that knowing for sure what your feelings mean is not the most important thing in your life just because ocd says it is.
I wrote to you earlier. I’ve got one additional question regarding the exposure and response prevention therapy. From your professional point of view how long does it last to become insensitive to the thoughts which appear in one’s mind, which oppose one’s natural and acceptable ideas? I believe hocd is very often caused when a trigger makes us vulnerable and we become oversensitized to a particular idea which we cannot accept and stand. In fact, it may be caused by various factors as you stated before. But is there average time after which EBT ‘wipes out’ the problem. And, as you wrote, in my case response prevention is about acccepting the thoughts – is there anything else to it, or only facing (exposure) and accepting?
Hi Luke, the speed at which someone habituates to triggering material is dependent on the consistency with which they engage in the exposure and their commitment to resisting the compulsive response. This can take hours, days, or months depending on how the treatment is being applied and what amounts of anxiety the sufferer is willing to face.
While mindfulness and accepting your gay thoughts as they are may initially feel like an exposure, effective ERP is going to have to include direct and intentional confrontation with things that will trigger the thoughts (pictures, places, videos, etc.). I encourage you to read our article about treatment for HOCD.
Thank you very much for the answer!
Hello, thanks for posting this great article! MY HOCD came out after I broke up with my first boyfriend. When it first started it was really bad, I have sought out treatment which has helped me a bit but my HOCD always comes back when I am having issues with the opposite sex. Once the issues start with a man, the questioning begins “Am I gay? Should I be dating women?” It also hits when I compare myself to my girlfriends who seem to be attracted to so many men. For me, I am attracted to a certain type of man but not every man and most of the time my attraction increases with a man after getting to know him which in turn makes me desire him more. I know that we are all wired differently but I wish that I didn’t have to deal with this. It is frustrating and most likely holding me back from many healthy fulfilling relationships.
Hi Jen, thanks for your post. I think this is a very common construct in this form of ocd. Relationships are complicated to begin with, so when you add ocd to the mix, it is likely to promote thinking about relationships in very ocd ways. One such ocd way is jumping to the conclusion that relationships not being perfect must say something about one’s sexual orientation. This is a trap to get you performing compulsions trying to prove that it isn’t. Simply allowing yourself to engage in the debate is enough to get you sucked into an ocd loop.
Interestingly, you describe your friends being attracted to “so many men” and yourself only being attracted to certain types and this attraction growing with the relationship growing. You sound healthier to me and more “normal” than your friends in this area.
Hi there, I wrote to you earlier before
I know very well my orientation and i know very well that i want a relationship with a girl.
The problem is that sometimes, i feel nothing towards women and that there is an increased feeling over guys.
It completly bothers me. There is no fear or anxiety with it but i am just bothered. I dont want anything to do with men, well romantically and sexually.
Any comments sir?
R,
It sounds like you are over-attending to what you feel about women or men and making a choice to associate this with sexual orientation. Rather than devoting mental resources to assessing how much or little you feel in response to men or women, you will want to work on accepting that whatever you feel is whatever you feel and is not intrinsically important to your orientation or anything else. If you are identifying that you are bothered by it, this suggests a belief that the feelings should not be as they are. My suggestion is to approach them as merely there and let yourself off the hook from needing to determine their value.
To use your terms, sometimes feeling nothing toward one thing and an increased feeling toward another thing does not merit the special attention your ocd is giving it. The experience of not always being fascinated by something you often are (i.e. feelings toward women), as well as the experience of sometimes being fascinated by something you rarely consider (feelings toward men) – these are normal events.
Hey there
I’m really confused with my sexual orientation. I’ve never been attracted to girls, only guys. I’ve kissed a few girls especially when I was younger but I never really felt a connection with them. I used to watch a lot is straight porn and read male on male all the time and it did turn me on a lot. but over the last year or so I’ve been into lesbian porn and masturbating to it. It started to bother me because I was mainly interested in guys and liked guys I even had a boyfriend who I had feelings for. Soon I started getting dreams of girls and now I’m so confused and worried all the time, my family don’t care if I am gay but it still seems to bother me. Reading your post did help but I’m still worried
Hi Isabella,
I cannot discern via a blog comment if you are gay, and I don’t think you need to know. In fact, I think it is pretty much unimportant for anyone to “know” their sexual orientation with certainty. If you are attracted to guys, then go out with guys. In the meantime, analyzing your porn preferences seem to me to be a compulsion. If your reaction to watching lesbian porn is causing you to be confused and uncomfortable, stop watching lesbian porn.
For 8 months I have been suffering from hopefully HOCD. Everyday i am in a constant battle with myself. These thoughts and urges started last June after my grandfather passed away. I am still depressed about my grandfather passing to this day. But this whole obsession started after watching a tv show where my favorite character who was a male found out he was gay. I get this weird feeling when i see a female i can not tell if it is attraction or anxiety. I would never do anything with a female. I am only attracted to men but this whole obsession is getting to me so much that my grades in college slipped from A/B range to D/F’s. Ever since i was little I liked older men like 25 years older than me because boys back then looked to much like girls. Last year I had a huge crush on my professor. So what i am getting at here is this article helped me somewhat understand what I am going through. I have had past obsessions like am I pregnant or do i have diabetes , etc.
hello,
first off, thanks for the article. second, i have all the symptoms of SO-ocd, and have been diagnosed as ocd from a LMHP and psychiatrist.
i am 41 and have been thru this cycle of hell 4 different times. first, when i was in my late teens twice (lasted for about a week or two). then, after sailing thru my 20s with no problem, when i was 31, i was hit hard by this. i was sure i would turn homosexual. i attempted suicide and was baker acted and put in a mental hospital. to shorten this rather long story, i concluded that i was turning gay and just gave up and said “whatever happens, happens” and lived my life one day at a time. well the whole gay fear (that was 24/7 for 6 months) just faded away over time. i never really asked why, just was glad it was gone. then in late 2007, bang! it happened again. for months i feared i was gonna turn gay. and, again, it faded away over time. but that time i read about OCD and gay ocd. when it happened again in 2009, i went to a LMHP, and she said it was ocd (without me feeding her lies so she would tell me what i wanted to hear); after being baker acted again because of this, i was yet again in a mental hospital and a psychiatrist told me it was ocd. it has been a real problem for me to believe i’m not going to turn gay again lately. i’m just like everyone else symptom wise. life long, raging flaming heterosexual, numerous girl crushes, lusting over them, having sex with girls is always great (unless this is happening then im sexually dead). i’ve NEVER been aroused by gay sex or had a crush on a guy. just this fear that i will like it someday.
i guess i’m wanting to ask, is this something that can go and come back numerous times? and am i too old for it to be ocd? i have an obsessive personality. it’s been noted to me by friends and family. but i’m getting tired of this happening.
thanks for any response and sorry for the rambling post…
Hi Alexandra,
It definitely sounds like you are dealing with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and are falling into the trap of over-attending to thoughts and feelings about sexual orientation.
It’s not unusual for a triggering event that may cause depression (such as the loss of a loved one) to coincide with a flare-up in OCD symptoms. I say “flare up” rather than “onset” because it sounds like your previous avoidance of age-appropriate boys who looked girlish to you may possibly have also been a part of this fear of gay thoughts.
It sounds like you should be getting treatment if you have access to it. The best treatment for OCD is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
Eric, it’s not uncommon for ocd symptoms to wax and wane throughout one’s life, and age is certainly not a factor in this regard.
It’s worth noting that the first time your symptoms faded away was when you were taking a mindful approach and saying “whatever happens, happens”. It is when you start treating the thoughts as intrinsically important that you start to tumble into an obsessive-compulsive cycle.
I encourage you to get Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and work on changing the way you think about and respond to your thoughts. People don’t “turn” into anything.
This was a great article Mr. Hershfield and I appreciate you writing it for folks like me who have been suffering from this.
I’ve been dealing with this for 3 years off and on and it has been quite painful. It started out when I was at a Spencer gifts and saw a poster of a girl that was very sexual. I don’t really know if I thought she was attractive/pretty or what but from that point on, I freaked out and have not been able to get this idea that I’m gay out of my head.
I researched for months on weather I was gay or not but during that time, I also found out that this happens to more people than I thought and that it was called HOCD. I have been to a therapist and although he said he was trained in CBT, his suggestions never worked for me. I just remember him telling me “It’s a sexual picture, of course you’re gonna think about sexual things, it doesn’t mean you’re attracted to the girl.” He would joke about me being gay which made it worse. In fact, I printed out a few articles about HOCD and gave it to him so he can help me better but he always just “talked” to me about it.
I left therapy and decided that I will do this on my own. After countless books and CBT exercises, the only thing that really helped me was “brainlock” which taught a person with intrusive thoughts to use the four methods and basically change what you are doing and just let the thoughts pass during obsessions/anxiety.
I have never had this problem before. I’ve always been attracted to men ( I’m a girl) and always wanted the marriage and the kids with them. I would spend hours trying to remember if I was attracted to any girls when I was younger. There are times where I would question that…like was I and didn’t know it?? I started having GAD a couple of months before I was diagnosed with MS. From GAD I had specific obsessions like not loving my then boyfriend or being gay. The thoughts have me so depressed that I don’t even want to get out of bed some days.
My boyfriend always says that he will not feed into my obsession but I can’t help it, it always sucks me back in. I’ve always been a firm believer that you cannot just turn gay and that people know that they’re gay at a very young age. But again, it’s never enough to help me get over this. No matter how hard I try, more questions come up. Its very frustrating. I’m 27 and was diagnosed with the MS in 2007,do you think that there might be a correlation between anxiety/ocd and MS?
I know a lot of it is that I don’t want to lose having relationships with MEN.
P.S. sorry for the long story…
Hi RAD, thanks for sharing your story. There actually have been some studies showing a greater prevalence of OCD in people with MS. You may be able to look up some of the research online.
You mentioned that simply talking about the HOCD was not effective for you. What I didn’t see in your post is any reference to Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP), which is an important part of treatment. This will mean confronting the things that trigger your unwanted gay thoughts and resisting the compulsive ritual of trying to convince yourself you are straight. As long as you demonstrate to your ocd brain that you have something to prove, it will present the thoughts to you as debatable ideas.
Hello,
Thanks for your response! I always wondered about that because I used to worry about things ( parents getting sick, not passing a class, etc) but never about this kind of stuff. It started out with one obsession and now it’s this one. I guess I’m trying to say is that I might of had some tendencies of ocd but never like this. I always thought that it might be the leasons in the brain caused by the ms. I’m sure that has something to do with it.
But when conducted my own therapy, I used a book by Jonathan S. Abramowitz PhD called Getting Over OCD: A 10-Step Workbook for Taking Back Your Life (The Guilford Self-Help Workbook Series) Getting Over OCD: A 10-Step Workbook for Taking Back Your Life and used some of the suggestions like I used to record trigger words such as gay, bi, etc on a tape recorder and listen to them over and over on my way to work which helped a lot. Now I’m trying not to avoid reading or watching things about homosexuality like for example Tyra had a show about homosexuals and people who are just “gay for pay.”Although I watched the whole show, it didn’t bother me at first but later on in the day, it crept up and it triggered my anxiety.Its like when you’re in a panic mode, it’s really hard to apply the the 4 steps of brain lock..but I guess if you’re fighting it, it’s going to put up a hell of a fight. I’ve also been noticing other forms of obsession like being afraid that the OCD ( which I keep questioning if it actually is OCD because my therapist didn’t really do a formal test or anything, he just asked a couple of questions ) can turn in to a mental illness like Bi-polar disorder or schizophrenia…it’s a never ending mental battle. Of course, I was just done with my master’s thesis and stress really triggered this whole thing. Again sorry for the long post but my question is what is considered a compulsive ritual if it’s really almost like pure O?
Hi – I wanted to post as I’ve had a lot of anxiety for the past 9 months or so. I used to think that I was bi-sexual, but mainly straight. This was becuase I felt physically, emotionally and sexually attracted to women but from the age of 17 had occasionally had same sex fantasies. Also, from the age of 18 to 21 I had a few homosexual encounters. So… I felt absolutely fine about this and continued on my normal, everyday life. I liked women and never doubted that fact. I had a load of girlfriends and eventually got married to a girl I love. All was well.
Then one day I woke up and a voice in my head was asking ‘What if you’re gay?’. I thought about it. Started arguing it over in my head. Over and over and over. And unfortunately it’s never really left since. I go round seeking an answer to the question of my orientation almost endlessly.
I’ve tried self applying some CBT priniciples and they have worked for periods. Unfortunately sometimes something will happen which will cause massive anxiety and set off the spiral of questioning in my head again. I’ve also had various checking compulsions such as looking at guys and wondering if I think they’re attractive. I’ve also seeked reassurance from coming out stories, trying to match my own story to sometinhg else, masturbating to straight porn regularly etc. I feel lost in my own head and all I want is to go back to being me again.
I wonder if I’m having a sexual identity crisis due to m past experiences. I think it’s a form of HOCD but can’t be sure. Sometimes I think I’m deluding myself and just hoping it is. But the anxiety and thought cycle seem to be inextricably linked. Sorry, I’ve rambled and probably not made much sense. But I was wondering, is it possible to bi Bi or have had same sex experiences and get this form of OCD or is it necessarily denial?
Thanks, and apologies if I’ve spiked anyone.
Sorry, to add to my already long post but I would add that I had a few anxiety issues (panic attacks etc.) prior to this onset of rumination. I also had taken a drug called mephedrone prior to its onset which I think may have helped spark it off. I think I’ve also had the olfactory anxiety thing for a few years without realising it(whereby I thought I could smell myself but no-one else could). I don’t know. Maybe I’m just clasping at straws and hoping it’s HOCD because I love my wife and don’t want to be without her. Again, sorry for the rambling.
Hi,Thank you for the article,my issue is this-I obsess about being gay constantly.My feeling is that I am suppressing my homosexuality rather than suffering from HOCD for example when masturbating I start off thinking of women but at the point of climax the image is of a man??!!
Hi RAD,
It sounds like you have gotten some good info on treating OCD on your own. The term “Pure O” is actually a misnomer because there are still compulsions happening – they are just taking the form of mental ritual instead of physical ritual.
For example, you described anxiety over watching the gay-themed tv show creeping up on you after the fact. What you might not have been aware of was engaging in compulsions called mental checking or mental review. When you dig up the memory of a triggering event and replay it in an attempt to identify if you are responding to it the “right” way, then you are doing a compulsion. If the objective of your mental behavior is to resolve something, figure it out, identify it as ok (or not ok), then you are doing a compulsion.
The goal should be to accept whatever thoughts come into your head as being thoughts, and not necessary to respond to with analysis.
Dang,
It sounds like you are pretty clear about what compulsions you have engaged in and how they contribute to your obsessions. Lots of “straight” people have gay thoughts and gay fantasies, but whether you are straight, bi, or gay is not really important. You’re saying you don’t want to leave your wife. So don’t. If this means you are in denial of some perceived “true self” then so be it.
Right now you want to be with your wife, so you sound pretty sure that you’re happy with your wife. So stop doing compulsions and accept that you are going to have gay thoughts and never know for sure if you’d be happier with a man. It’s entirely possible that I’d be happier as a lion tamer, but today I rather enjoy being a therapist.
Pat,
People have all kinds of intrusive thoughts at the point of climax, particularly if they are over-attending to their thoughts about climaxing the “right” way.
Identifying and valuing unwanted thoughts as being unacceptable thoughts sounds like OCD to me.
Hi John, I would really like some clarification, specifically regarding my situation.
I have always been straight my whole life. I have never dreamed or lusted over guys, only guys. I would always get nervous when talking to a girl, and get extremely aroused even when I hugged one or for example if a girl sat on my lap. I have done “gay stuff” with guys before but it was merely just joking stuff such as play humping or calling each other hot. I never got any pleasure from this.
Is it possible for homosexuality to have been sub concious or dortmant in me? I have lost all my attraction for girls; I can’t get aroused or get an erection over girls or to porn and I have no real experience with one.
Also, does anxiety always need to be followed up with depression? I have tried to accept the thoughts, however I just cant. Before I would get really depressed and anxious due to the thoughts, however I still get anxious its just really mild. The thoughts are there still but I don’t really get anxious.
Also, is it possible that I am bi-sexual? I have also been worrying about this. I cannot get aroused over guys or girls even though I try to check (with guys) or want to (with girls). My whole life desire was to be with women, I’ve always had crushes on them. Now when I ask myself this question, I don’t know what to conclude.
Also, I don’t even know if I have HOCD! I have been obessesing about it for months and suffer from all or most of the symptoms and can relate to other HOCD’ers but I have never been oficially diagnosed and this seems so real to me. It’s not what I want
Joshua,
I’m not in a position to formally diagnose you from here, and certainly not in a position to tell you what sexual orientation you are. What I can say is that it appears you are spending a lot of time checking your response to men and women and this checking behavior is a common compulsion in HOCD.
To your question about dormant or subconscious homosexuality – I do not believe this exists. If it does exist, it requires a psychological phenomenon I have never seen – to derive pleasure from something while having no idea you are deriving pleasure from it. What is more common is for some people who have homosexual desires to make efforts to avoid or neutralize those desires for cultural or strategic reasons. There is nothing subconscious about this.
Can I make the “turn” from being straight to gay? It may sound like a dumb question, but I have been attracted to girls all my life, I don’t see how this can be happening.
I don’t want to be gay because I’ve always desired women and being with a man wouldn’t be right… Social reasons in regards to my family and society come into play as well but its a very small part, maybe 25 percent of the problem.
These thoughts are seeming to become more and more real, and causing me stress. I go through mood swings and they are constantly on my mind…
Hi,
I keep reading the responses you give to other people and try to get information about myself. I have three questions. First about the response you gave above to Joshua: How do homosexual desires look like? I know it sounds a bit stupid. But I really want to know. Second, is it possible to find out if I am truelly homosexual but trying to neutralize it or if I am just having obsessions about it? And the third question is really important for me: Is it possible to be obsessing about this issue while it is really true? It is constantly on my mind and causes a lot of distress. But could it be that it is true though?
I hope you can help me.
Hey,
I’ve been struggling with HOCD for a while now. It started last October and has been coming and going. The initial thought of “I might be gay” came when I tried getting back together with an ex-girlfriend, and I had lost attraction to her in just three days. The main reasons I feel like the HOCD is attacking me is because of that, and also because I’ve never been too into porn. I’ve watched it occasionally (usually lesbian) and been turned on by it, but I usually masturbate to pictures of women I find attractive, and the women I find attractive are usually slightly chubby. I’ve always had sort of a fetish for a girl with a bit of belly (not BIG girls, but not rail thin). I also have never thought vaginas are all that attractive. I would no question have sex with a girl, but the thought of a vagina doesn’t always turn me on. I’ve started wondering why it is that I don’t like heterosexual porn that much, and I’m incredibly confused by it. I’ve always been attracted to girls, and I’ve never gotten hard thinking/looking at a man, but for some reason, that’s not enough evidence for me to shut these thoughts out of my head. I used to have no problem seeing a movie with a gay sex scene, I’d just think it was funny, but now I would freak out if I ever saw one. I honestly feel like if I found out I was gay, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself. I always see articles that say “people with HOCD are disgusted by gay thoughts”, and I used to be, but I’ve had HOCD for so long that I can’t even tell if I’m disgusted by them or not.
Sorry for being all over the place, I just wanted to try to get my thoughts out there. Thanks for the article. I appreciate any further advice you can give me.
Thanks,
Perry
Wow, reading the last few posts between April and May sound exactly like what I’m going through. What really sucks is that even though I have every symptom of HOCD, and have been diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and having irrational thoughts (is this the same as OCD?), I can’t help but question and doubt myself. I’ve always loved women. I’ve always been scared of what people think of me, for as long as I can remember, but I’m sure that’s a part of my social anxiety.
I’ve had little things here and there that are definitely OCD, but I’ve never been fully diagnosed with it. Back in middle school, I had this irrational fear that I was going to kill myself, but I never had any intention of actually doing it. It eventually went away after a year and a half and I have no idea how. I wish my HOCD would do this…
Perry, Joshua, and Hannah have all said things that I can relate to 100%. It’s horrible knowing that your brain still tries to mess with you even though all the signs point to OCD. I wish I could have my attraction to women back. I just want to be happy again… 🙁
Also, I took the Pure-O test on this site, and even though it says it’s unofficial, it still has to count for something, right?? It said if you checked off more than 7, than you there’s a high probability you have Pure-O. I checked somewhere between 15-17…. Yikes.
Joshua, I don’t know if people “turn” gay. It is not something I have ever seen happen, but the point is you are going to have to live with the uncertainty. You report not wanting to be gay. So whatever thoughts are happening need to be looked at as thoughts and not necessarily mandates to change your sexual orientation. I would look instead at changing the ocd behaviors and getting Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
Hi Hannah,
>>>How do homosexual desires look like? I know it sounds a bit stupid. But I really want to know.
—It’s not that it’s stupid, so much as it is a question only a heterosexual would ask. What do heterosexual desires look like?
>>>Second, is it possible to find out if I am truelly homosexual but trying to neutralize it or if I am just having obsessions about it?
—If you are saying that you really like having homosexual sex and fantasizing about homosexual things, but are afraid of being judged by a hetero-normative society, then I would suggest seeing a an LGBT specialist (someone who works with sexual orientation issues). If you are saying that you are having intrusive thoughts about being a homosexual and you want it to stop, then I would suggest getting CBT for OCD. If you are saying that you need to know for sure which of the two things are happening and won’t rest until you are positive you got the right answer, then I would also suggest you get cbt for your ocd.
>>>And the third question is really important for me: Is it possible to be obsessing about this issue while it is really true? It is constantly on my mind and causes a lot of distress. But could it be that it is true though?
—You will not like this answer, but anything is possible. The problem is in your internal response to the question. If it is constantly on your mind, and it is true, then presumably you are telling yourself something about it which is causing you distress. If you are having gay thoughts and they seem genuine and true to who you are, then it would be interesting to know what there is to be distressed about.
If an ocd sufferer with contamination fears tells me that they want to know if it is possible that they will get a disease from touching a doorknob and not washing their hands, what would be an appropriate response? Certainly it is possible, but since they want to use doors and doors have doorknobs, some acceptance is going to have to take place. This acceptance does not mean they will get a disease from a doorknob. Accepting the possibility that your obsessive thoughts are true does not make them true.
Perry,
The HOCD wants you to explain your experience of heterosexuality, but explaining it only sends the message to your brain that your orientation is open for debate. Not everyone is into porn and many men fail to look at vaginas and think “that looks beautiful.” Frankly I don’t know how women refrain from laughing when looking at penises for that matter. Anyway, it’s irrelevant to your orientation.
>>>I always see articles that say “people with HOCD are disgusted by gay thoughts”
—I think this statement can be misleading. There are many different forms of anxiety and discomfort and only one of them is disgust. One of the problems with ocd is tunnel vision, meaning you are looking at this statement in one direction only. If people with HOCD are “disgusted” by gay thoughts, and you are not always 100% disgusted, then you must be gay. This is distorted logic. People without HOCD are generally indifferent to gay thoughts, not disgusted, because they don’t see the thoughts as particularly important. Does this mean that all people without obsessive compulsive disorder are gay? No.
My recommendation is that you get cognitive behavioral therapy and start treating your ocd.
Daniel,
>>> What really sucks is that even though I have every symptom of HOCD, and have been diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and having irrational thoughts (is this the same as OCD?)…
—Though technically separate diagnoses in the DSM-IV, social anxiety disorder is essentially a form of obsessive compulsive disorder in which the primary obsession is with being evaluated negatively. This has always seemed a somewhat silly distinction to me since many people who are compulsive handwashers also fear being evaluated negatively for not washing responsibly.
You describe a lot of common OCD symptoms. Perhaps it is time to seek out a cognitive behavioral therapist who specializes in ocd, get formally assessed, get treated and get better.
I have been through this hocd once before and now it is back i am struggling and i feel like i just wanna give up and accept my loses. I dont wanna be gay and i have never had any intercourse with a man and i dont think i could actually go through with it but i have these thoughts and they are not gay sex but they are kissing a man and im constantly asking my self if i find that man attractive. I have a wife and a kid and before all this started back up me and my wife have sex and i didnt worry about it but right now my thoughts are all messed up. can hocd make you think gay things like have gay thoughts. i tryed looking at gay pron and i gaged but then i went into thinking was i gaging becasue i made myself or becasue i was grossed out.and also i find myslef watching how i sit and talk and walk not wanting to do any of that gay but i am not gay or i dont think. im so confused i need help
Andrew,
I don’t know if it can give you any peace of mind but what you are describing is exactly the way dreadful HOCD works. I’ve had this form of OCD for almost 3 years now and I may assure you that watching porn isn’t helpful at all – watching porn is in fact reassurance seeking, that is – a compulsion – and it can cause your anxiety to grow, for example by causing the so called groinal response.
You cannot stop the thoughts – but what you can stop are the actions, or compulsions which are done particularly to alleviate the anxiety but later on the anxiety returns and is even worse. I know that HOCD is often the “Pure-O” (Purely Obsessional) OCD but even in this kind of OCD there are compulsions but they are covert (in contrast to typical OCD, where the compulsions are overt) mental acts like constant ruminations, mental checking etc. I think one of the most difficult things in HOCD is the fact that very often the obsessions and compulsions mingle and confuse us to a level in which we can’t tell which is obsession and which is compulsion.
You may find that interesting because I’m suffering from HOCD but am gay myself and because of HOCD (sometimes I call it reverse HOCD) I doubt everyting(although I don’t want to – but the disorder makes me to), question it, fear that I may become a heterosexual guy and my life has become a real living hell. This disorder is indeed kind of ironic – you fear of being/becoming someone you don’t want to be. So, no matter what is the sexual orientation of a person, HOCD will try to question it, confuse a person, put disgusting ideas against a person’s will and so on.
I wish you good luck!
Andrew, the way in which you are looking to the gay porn is backfiring because, as Luke said, it is only reassurance seeking. There is a role pornographic imagery can have in treatment, but it needs to be done methodically and without compulsions. Over-attending to how you sit or walk is also compulsive. Right now the behaviors you are engaging in are designed to convince yourself that you are straight. Since you already appear to be straight, your brain is responding to your behavior as if it is supposed to be promoting debate about your orientation. The best way to get past this is to get cognitive behavioral therapy from an ocd specialist who can help you identify your distorted thinking and stop doing compulsions.
Just a question. I’ve suffered from HOCD but it plays on the fact that you can be aroused (or rather remind me of sex, porn, etc) by sexual things/body parts, coming from both the same or opposite sex. It bothers me so much because I know i’m not actually interested in gay sex, being with another woman in any way, nor have I ever been. Is this normal? 🙁 So frustrated with this disease!
Nancy, as you noted, it is possible to be aroused by sexual concepts and images that are not exclusively within your own preferred orientation. The awareness of this is not your problem. It is your reaction to these thoughts that makes them threatening. Having gay thoughts or fantasies does not make you gay any more than having aggressive thoughts and fantasies makes you a professional boxer. It is normal to have unexpected thoughts and not wish them to be manifested as behaviors.
Although I sit here, depersonalized and having found myself unable to focus or remember well (presumably as a result of having had this anxiety for months), I have painstakingly read the article, each comment, and each of your responses. I am actually in awe. As someone who has been going through this for months, and still dreads the memory of that night in 11th grade that was lying in bed and that first “what if i am…: thought came in with intense anxiety, someone who goes through everything that was described here–and I don’t think I have to further elaborate…anything i can think of has been covered—really, I am in awe. I do not know if you are getting paid to host this forum and meticulously respond to each post or not, but it does not even really matter. Althhough this means nothing, I consider myself a pretty “manly man”…yet, there are tears literally strolling down my cheeks. I am so appreciative of what you’ve done here and I really think I can speak on behalf of the rest of this community that, given the fact that relatively not so much has been written HOCD in psychoanalytic literature, how methodically, how thoroughly, and how sensitively you have responded to each post…it is inspiring. If you do ultimately become a lion tamer…then that is one lucky pride of lions. I do not know if it is a credit to your field, your education, your background, your parents…but you are undoubtedly a remarkable person; someone who so clearly loves being in the business of making another person feel better. There were times as I scrolled through this all that I began giggling, not because something was at all humorous but because the reasonableness, the sensitivity, and the way you addressed things… and because seeing someone else literally type out your symptoms…is quite remarkable…quite elegantly a reminder of how similar we all are…really what an experience. I read this entire thread from top to bottom and felt temporarily launched out of my bout of depersonalization. Of course, I too could have, and do have questions…both gerneral and specific to my situation, but even before I could think of asking, I must, on behalf of everyone, congratulate you for being…above all… an excellent person; a reward perhaps as atypical as it is profound. I used to love writing, and this comment was the first thing I have decided to go venture and write, despite feeling depersonalized and detached, in about 3 months.
When fielding these comments and mechanically responding to each person’s situation becomes ever exhausting, demanding, and emotionally draining, know that if there is one thing I can be sure of nowadays, one thing I feel it is important to remind you of…it is that you are seriously helping a lot of people.
And for that I thank you.
Dreejk,
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. It is hugely rewarding to know that we are making a difference and we thank you for your emotional generosity in this feedback.
Hi I just was wondering if I have hOCD or not. I have only dated men in the past and I’m 34 years old and have felt confident that I was straight up until 30. One former boyfriend noticed that I was attracted to women but said it was no big deal and we were fine. However within the last 2 or three years I’ve had bigger doubts about my orientation and feel that I might be changing. I don;t know what to do about it since I’ve been dating a man who loves me and would probably accept me even if I was really gay. But I don’t know if my problem is I’m having trouble feeling attracted to him or feeling attracted to all men ingeneral. This whole thing is mentally exhausting and painful. I’ll try to accept myself, if I only knew who I really was. The idea of having to look for a woman makes me want to cry. Thanks for all your help.
Maria,
Sounds like ocd to me. First, it’s important to remember that straight people have gay thoughts. Finding other women attractive when you don’t typically identify as same-sex oriented does not make you gay. It makes you a straight woman who also finds some women attractive. The ocd says you have to know with 100% certainty what it means that you have these occasionally conflicting thoughts. You can circumvent the whole thing by letting go of the idea that they are conflicting.
When you frame the notion of being gay as “having to look for a woman” you pretty clearly identify a distinction here from homosexuality, in which you would YEARN to look for a woman. But this evidence is insufficient for your ocd because all evidence is.
If you seek treatment for ocd, you will want cognitive behavioral therapy and would likely do some form of imaginal exposure in which you confront the idea that you are secretly in gay denial and will “have to” go find a woman. In the meantime, rather than over-attend to who you feel attracted to when, where, and why, try to accept in any present moment that you are feeling whatever you are feeling and it is not necessary to define yourself.
Thanks so much for your response. I thought about something else I’d like to ask you about. I guess it’s just the nature of this “doubting disease”. I’ve heard about women who were married but then realized they were gay all along. Then they left their husbands for another woman or also that men have left their wives after years of repression and then finally found the man of their dreams. Did this mean they repressed that they were gay all along or did they actually shift in their preferences? If they did make a shift this is diconcerting, especially if I have HOCD, because then I feel like if I’m in denial maybe shouldn’t make a commitment to a man for now until I’m sure because wouldn;t want to cause him problems in the future. I feel lately very uncomfortable around female friends, maybe they are spiking the unwanted thoughts and much calmer in the company of men. I’m having trouble commiting in my current relationship with a man and am not sure if it’s the glitchy thoughts and HOCD, real lesbian tendencies or just not in the right relationship all together. There are times in the day when I feel normal like myself and other times very anxious about these thoughts about being with women even worse are thoughts about close friends.
Thanks again for any feedback.
Hi,
I researched up a article on the internet discussing freudian’s latent homosexuality. And some of the symptoms sound quite alot like hocd symptoms. eg. “fear of being gay…” and etc. I am so depressed after reading that article. Honestly, I have spiked so bad after reading that damn article. I dont know what to do. I have always wanted to be with a girl and I still do, but this article is trying to suggest otherwise that subconcouisly or something that I am gay.
SO my question is can you have OCD and have latent homosexuality? So is OCD like my defense mechanism aganist this latent homosexuality? Conciously I know I dont want to be with a man. I know that, but subconciously I dont really know, because I am unconcious when I am subconcious. So I guess that doesnt make any sense…? or does it? once again, I am depressed, I really cant imagine living a gay life-style. I would rather kill myself first. But does that make me a latent homosexual? because a non-gay would not be scared to live a gay lifestyle? so therefore I would be latent homosexual? What the hell is wrong with me. I am so saddened. I feel like I cant have crushes on girls anymore…If I had a choice between living with OCD (or latent homosexuality) and with the faint chance that it will turn out to be all a lie or having the definite choice of just being asexual, with a second thought I would choose to be asexual, at least all the pain would be gone. I wouldnt have to worry.
Thanks
TOm
Hi,
A few more details I forgot to include yesterday, first off, I am so terrified of homosexual sex that I am paranoid. What my fear stem from this voice in my head (yeah, I have a voice in my head), that always make me fear my self. For example, when I was younger 7 or 8 years old, I remember going into the kitchen standing on a stool to get something and I see this knife on the counter, and suddenly this voice in my head tells me “you need to take that knife and hurt somebody…” I was totally freaked out, I was terrified that one day I might do what that voice is telling me, and the more terrified I became the louder that voice in my head. So from that day on, I would never dare to look at a knife or handle a knife around other people.
So you can see where my fear of gay sex comes from, I am absolutely horrified, I am so scared that some how that voice inside my head will cause me to do something I dont want to do. And for some reason, this voice only appears when I am truly, 100% horrified at something. I am scared of that voice. And I dont mean it’s like a real talking voice, but more of a passing thought that tells me to do something I am terrified of, that makes me fear I cant control myself. I am scared that I am losing control of myself. Does this have to do with OCD? I doubt it does, perhaps I am suffering from something else too?
-Tom
Maria,
You wrote, “I’ve heard about women who were married but then realized they were gay all along.” … Then you wrote, “Did this mean they repressed that they were gay all along or did they actually shift in their preferences?”
—Guess they were gay all along. Can’t say for sure, but that’s what you wrote and it sounds right to me. It is common in HOCD to fear being “in denial” and to be invested in the distorted idea that it is somehow possible to know “for sure” that you are not something you are afraid of. If you are in a relationship and it is otherwise healthy, I would commit to the choice to be in that relationship and not let something as unreliable as thoughts and feelings influence your decision.
Tom, latent homosexuality is a theory. It is not one I agree with. Freud was also well known for not wanting to treat ocd because psychoanalysis didn’t work.
You mentioned symptoms of another manifestation of ocd which is sometimes called Harm OCD that involves intrusive thoughts of suddenly turning violent or accidentally causing harm. This is another very common and treatable form of OCD.
Maria,
If it makes you feel any better, I heard a radio interview with a guy who was married to his wife for five years and was planning on leaving her because he is gay. He knew very well he was gay (he had two previous male partners) and he was quite comfortable in his gay identity. The problem was that his father was a preacher and so was his brother. He was afraid of what they thought, so he got married to hide it. Another time I saw a similar story on television. So there was no uncertainty there, they were very sure they were gay and just got married to hide or whatever.
But I think as OCD sufferers, we always fear irrationally. I also have the fear that I will be married with kids and one day I’ll say, “oh no, I’m gay,” goodbye wife and kids. But this isn’t a rational thought. Is it not just as possible or more likely I might leave my wife for another women? Or we just get divorced because of other issues? Or maybe I will die before I even get married. Why don’t I fear these things? Probably because I’ve accepted the uncertainty of these things happening, and said “whatever, I’ll take my chances.”
Anything is possible. It’s up to us to decide…live our lives happy and enjoy the relationships we’re in and accept the uncertainty that something might happen down the road, or….we can live in fear the rest of our lives obsessing and cringing in fear. I’ve made up my mind, I’m going to get some therapy.
Dear Frank,
Thanks for your comments. I think you’re so right about worrying about marriage, that there are so many issues and we HOCDers are just too focused on that one issue that is proabbly much more unlikely than others. It’s a weird condition because it comes and goes. There are days I feel my normal straight self. There are days when I feel my weird HOCD self. I think we all do perhaps have underlying fears about not being who were really are.
Take care.
I am stuggling at the moment, when i go out with friends i see attractive women , and know that they are but do not get the arosal only a numb feeling and disapointment , depression, anger, then i see a guy and i get the feeling (i think) i wish and used to have for women. I then have to check and test myself to see if i would sleep with this person.usually that means panic and quick retreat home to test.
I watch gay porn, i dont know if its ego syntonic , or ego dystonic which leads to the compulsion, it feels like i have to do it and maybe there is a little pleasure i dont know, if i dont touch myself i dont get an erection, but then my mind drives me to carry on. i have orgasmed and have found it pleasurable but most of the time its like a cold wave of shame and why did i do that.during my teens i did masterbate once to same sex thoughts and got the same feeling and knew that it was not for me, and carryed on thinking alot about women now my mind says i like this feeling of weird anxiety shame Thats without cognitive thinking intiating the feeling.i tried to call my bluff by trying to say that its really what i want and i am gonna really enjoy it one time and i didnt,now i think that because ive done that ive blocked my true identity and i am in denial.
I also had same sex experience when i was younger 13 and think i orgasmed which made me feel terrible at the time. But all this seems to add up that ive been in denial all the years cos of the guilt or something This also rings true when i go out and do not feel anything towards women, and then without thinking ive seen a guy which causes anxiety , low self esteem. With this comes paranoid that someone will notice ,also I have heard women espically comment on my orientation, which never used to happen. Although i have never been good around women need to get to know them but dont have that chance.
I have had 3 major gf spanning 9 years 14 – 23 and a few inbetween and i did enjoy them alot and was in love. Now being around any women makes me very anxios because they might out me, and i feel that i cant talk to them and the can mind read me.Also this block which feels like it stops my attraction. i have suffered for 7 years now ,dont have a job,sleep all day, watch films all night cos its the easiest way to live, but its not, my last gf told me i was camp when i smoked alot of weed, and we tryed stuff with the finger which i did enjoy. This is when it all started. with this as well my mind pushes that i must now be that way. im 27 this all started around 21.
i did go to the priory in U.k, they didnt think i was gay and prescribed citrolapram 20mg and seroquel 200mg. I did feel better but it did nt last and they never diagnosed me with ocd. It feels like it evovles i read someone comment on this. Its like the longer it has gone on ,the more distorted i think about stuff its still the same topic but my mind makes the outlay different, which inturn starts the cicle again.Its the same cicle but always feels different ( more personal), and my mind says to that your in denial.
i need to get help for me and my family espically my mother is tired on the never ending arguments and reasurrance seeking, but what if its not hocd i dont think my frenids would accept me and i dont wont to prove all this ppl right who judge me. I dont really know what im asking – i just had to finally air myself and your site is the one that has helped me the most. I hope i can turn my life aound and help people like you are and be a good person instead of rotting away from being a carefree cheecky chapie to a complete wreck.
I posted on this wall months and months ago. For a while, my HOCD dimmed alot and most of the time I knew who I was (straight) and ignored the thoughts.
However, recently the thoughts have come crashing back with twice the strength and feel that not only am i losing my mind, but also that the longer this continues the more my orientation is being turned.
My most horrifying experience occured this morning. I had a gay dream. Prior to this, I’ve only dreamt of men. However in this dream I got intimate with a woman and I think I actually wanted to do it and enjoyed. Whats worse still, when I woke, I felt a groinal response.
I am beside myself. I have been in tears this morning as I really feel this must mean I’m gay. Is this my sub concious revealing my inner desires? I just dont know.
I feel like I’ve truly lost my Fiance now. Before this HOCD started, I was madly in love with him, desired him, I desperately wanted to get married to him and have children. Now however, when I look at him I feel nothing – it makes me cry because it feels like my happiness has been stolen from me. I no longer want to marry him because I’m worried years down the line I’ll realise I am in fact gay, and leave him and destroy his life. I longer want children, they just annoy me.
I cant ever win or come to a conclusion. Every woman I look at, I think I ‘fancy’ her – this includes young, old, literally *any* female. I have this compulsion to look at women’s breasts now which I hate. Prior to the onset of HOCD (if that’s even what I’m suffering from) If I looked at a woman’s chest it was because I was envious of what they had as I’m small busted.
I keep thinking I must be gay, but being straight feels normal to me and the thought of having to go to a ‘gay club’ to find a woman distresses me.
Maybe i should note that I had this when I was about 13 – 18 which began because a girl at school asked if me and my friend were lesbians because we were really close.
I apologise for the length of my post, but I would so greatly appreciate a response. I feel like my mind is a prison and I’m trapped in these thoughts 24/7. I have no one to turn to and feel so alone.
Hi Anon,
Thanks for your post and for demonstrating bravery in letting it out. Since you have not asked a particular question about your treatment, I am assuming you are not currently in treatment. This is very important. Whatever the “meaning” of your gay thoughts, it is clear that you are responding to them in an obsessive compulsive way and engaging in behaviors that are interfering in your tolerance of uncertainty. It also sounds like your current lifestyle is a guarantee for depression, which is likely to exacerbate your ocd symptoms. It’s time to get professional help and put your life back together.
Hi Jade, sorry you’re going through a rough time. I can’t recall from our previous posts, are you in treatment? You have HOCD and would likely benefit from Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Over-attending to your feelings about your fiance is compulsive and making it hard to be in the moment. Not being in the moment is making you obsess about not being right together.
Straight people have gay dreams. You may enjoy it or not. It’s irrelevant. If you enjoy it, it’s because in your dream, you are gay. I can fly in dreams sometimes, but I won’t be jumping out of windows any time soon.
First of all i have had anxiety attacks (social anxiety) since the age of 18. On that note, I have been doing great with it for the past 2 years and pretty much off of my medication (only when needed) and I am in a relationship with the girl i love and want to spend the rest of my life with, we have been together for almost 3 years. All of a sudden the other week the word gay started popping up in my head and would not go away…I am not attracted to guys and never have been, but i cannot get the thought out of my head, its not like fantasizing about it, its just a voice saying everything you are doing is gay and i am gonna lose everything i have because i am gay, why did you look at that guy? is it because your gay?…when i know i am not. This is ironically happening right as i am thinking of proposing to my girlfriend and buying a house and these thoughts are ruining my life. I feel like a prisoner inside my own mind, and no matter how many times i remind myself that its only thoughts and thoughts can’t control me they still come right back, to the point where i can’t concentrate on anything but the thoughts and just thinking of me being with another guy makes me sick. I have never felt like this before so I did some searching online and found this forum which has been helpful in the most part and i also made a dr’s appointment because of the thoughts and them causing severe anxiety attacks. I just wish these thoughts would go away so i can concentrate and live my life that i am grateful for. Please help me with any advice you may have for me…Thanks
Ricky, for some people with this form of ocd, it doesn’t have much to do with sex at all, but with words. So the word “gay” pops into your head and then you get stuck compulsively analyzing why the word “gay” is there. Of course, the word was always there, since it’s just a word. You have lots of words in your head. But one day your ocd targeted the word “gay” as a potential threat, something that could ruin your relationship or sense of self. From what you’ve written, you sound very invested in trying to get these thoughts and words to go away. This is a trap. You need to be doing the opposite, which is allow the thoughts to be there and stop treating them as threats. Whenever we tell the brain that something normal (i.e. a word) must go away, the brain assumes this is something that should be debated and pursued. So if you are having the thought that everything you do is “gay” (whatever that means) then accept and even agree with it. The hyper-awareness of the thoughts will fade when the over-attending and over-responding stops. By the way, it’s no surprise that this is coinciding with thinking of proposing to your girlfriend and buying a house. People with nothing to lose are probably less likely to fear losing their minds. Sounds like you are pursuing a medication treatment, which could be helpful for the anxiety. I highly recommend also seeking out a therapist who specializes in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for OCD, as this would be the most effective part of your recovery.
Yes i have started medication zoloft but the dr. said it takes several weeks to kick in. But currently i am so miserable like a prisoner trapped in my own mind, i can not get it out of my head and it is causing anxiety attacks every hour almost. I am terrified that I am gonna lose everything if the keeps up because I can’t continue living like this everyday. I have lost interest in everything i do on a normal basis. I just don’t understand how all of sudden this all started happening, everything was going great with me until last week. I have lost my appetite and energy and fear that this is going to last forever…i just wish i could wake up and the thoughts be gone, my mind has always got stuck on something and takes a while to get out of my head but never anxiety attacks with them (unless thinking about going somewhere with a large crowd). I plan on seeking therapy this week to maybe help with this. Thanks for your time, I really appreciate it.
Thanks for your quick response, your words seem to help me a little… The Doctor started me on Zoloft which takes several weeks to start helping, but currently i am miserable and have lost interest in everything i usually enjoy and i have not been able to eat due to my anxiety attacks. I am also seeking therapy this week to try to help this situation be resolved. I am scared to death about how long this can or will last and if i will ever be normal again? I feel that I can’t perform daily task because my mind will not slow down. Thanks for everything and taking time out of your day to help others who are not your patients.
I cant tell you how much this article and your responses to all the comments have helped me. I thought i was losing my mind and turning completely insane and more than that the fear was that i was turning lesbian or realizing that i was one and how could i live like that with a woman. You said that homosexuals fear societal oppression and how their family would take this more than the fact of being lesbian. I just wanted to tell you that i have felt both. I have felt very anxious about just being lesbian and having to give up my bf and life as i know it but part of it was also fear of how the world would take me. I felt constantly scared of how i would face myself and tried imagining in my mind how life would be after that. I have felt similarly to what almost all the people have said above but i have also felt strongly about how the world would take me. What would that mean.
Secondly, of late i have been feeling as if i really enjoy that feeling and want to think more of it.When i try doing it and my fears are validated i again freak out. Then i go into the entire exercise of rechecking in my mind again. is it possible that there are moments when you dont feel disgusted by the thought at the outset and think that it would not be too bad like this and i should see how far it leads to really check whether i would be comfortable with it or not. My final problem is sometimes the thought crosses my mind that im using this problem of OCD to again be in denial and give up in between. I purposely avert all logical arguments that disprove my fears and focus on new ones that validate it. I sometimes feel im faking it by being attracted to my bf and have to try too hard which just shows its not real. I feel henceforth i will naturally gravitate towards women and try feeling happy about it. But i instantly panic. Please show me a way out and please tell me whether i am in denial. I
goodly, glad to hear these articles have resonated with you.
You ask if it is possible to sometimes not be disgusted by the thoughts, or even like them. I think the question overlooks the fact that the thoughts themselves are normal events which are being distorted by ocd responses. Having a gay thought and liking it is not the end-all-be-all of what makes a person homosexual.
For example, I consider myself a non-violent person. However, I really do enjoy a good horror movie. I may get thoughts of a violent nature when someone cuts me off on the freeway. Perhaps I will think of them driving off a bridge. At times this thought will appear as an intrusion and I will respond to it by thinking that this is an image I would rather not contemplate. And at times that same thought will make me chuckle. In either case, it has not made me cut anyone’s brake lines.
You mention worrying about whether you are somehow faking your attraction to your boyfriend. I would challenge this by asking, so what if you are? If you want to be with your boyfriend, be with your boyfriend. If this involves acting like you want to be with your boyfriend, then so be it. If your energy is invested in trying to be CERTAIN that you are having the right thoughts and feelings at the right time, then things are always likely to feel a bit off.
The “way out” is to stop checking, stop analyzing, and stop treating the issue like it is an issue of sexual orientation. It is an issue of ocd and that is what should be treated, with an ocd specialist, with cognitive behavioral therapy.
Dear doctor,
Thank you so much for the prompt response. I live in India where mental health problems are still stigmatized and though i am undergoing CBT now with a college counsellor, im still not sure how effective it is. If you could please send me any information about OCD specialists in India. And, since im going through hell i would just like to share something more with you and il be really indebted to you if you could help.
On the day all this happened in January, this year and i broke down fearing that i had been attracted really to a woman because i was always in the process of checking and felt that im actually attracted, i ran away from class and started going through my bfs pics to reassure myself that im really fine. But, as soon as i saw his pics in that state, i felt that a lesbian woman could also look the same and behave in the same way( just like a man) and what if i am attracted to her. His image was completely distorted in my mind till then and whenever i was with him i used to ‘feel’ that i am with a woman and in a lesbian relationship. Every minute the thoughts in my mind replaced his image with that of a woman and i became disgusted with these intruding thoughts and everything he said or did seemed just like a lesbian doing it. it was not that i was in doubt of who he is but i felt people must be thinking im talking to my gf instead of my bf and the thoughts just kept replacing him with a woman and i could not stop it. For a long time i thought i was schizophrenic or delusional but the truth was that i knew its my bf and not some woman. It was just my mind telling me this could also be happening between a woman and you and i hated it. After CBT, i learnt not paying attention to this and it certainly improved our relationship but just slightly. I still get the same thoughts that this could also be happening with a woman and when i dont pay attention to it i sometimes feel i have accepted being in a lesbian relationship and will probably seriously start thinking of him as a real woman and lose my mind. This is the most distressing part of my problem where my mind does not allow me to see the man i love the most, in the way i like him and keeps bringing in the thoughts of it just being the same with a woman. I hate it,despise it. This is also a reason i am suddenly petrified of masculine looking women. and the moment i dont react to it, i feel that i have accepted being lesbian and freak out. Is this also a manifestation of the OCD or something more acute.
I went out the other night with friends and decided to be more positive. I felt anxious and with that came the want to check.Even with this problem occuring i decided to act confident and talk to people and focuses on the then and there. There were still mind niggles but they did not envelope into full blown panic.
I did then see someone who i know, hes is in the army and is good looking, also i have thought that he thought i was gay. I get the feeling and start to worry. Is this a missed placed feeling of admiration,expectancy wave because i have logged this in my brain as a dangerous situation or attraction?
I do have groinal responses to men and women. when its to women it does feel nice when natural and not forced. But when it does feel right i dismiss it because it is right and i dont need to think about it,which inturn feels like it is all just a bluff.
When with men its not something i want ( i think i m so confused now) and it needs to be analzed which creates the cycle.
For most of my evening out i did concentrate on the positives and did chat to a girl and felt underlying sexual tension which felt nice and boosted my confidence. but i still had two mental zones, one when i felt good and nothing of hocd nature bothered me. one that caused anxiety inturn paranoid and hocd related though patterns.
i dont know if people who dont suffer from hocd go through this mental change but not relating to hocd.
After the evening i felt invigorated and know that three meals a day,exercise,diversion from hocd thinking and positivity would be good steps to follow to help recover, yet monday morning, been awake all night again i feel anxious , been on forums and now writing to you. when i feel like this i have no motivation to change and the problem is , if i have anxiety i have no motivation so how do i change its called tough love and discipline but i cant muster it never really had to do it(things are comfortable there not because of the low hum of anxiiety ,depression but to jump out and have more anxiety just seems to much) if the world was going to end tomorrow would i do anything about it then.Its pathetic ,really pathetic .
Its like because of a positve event ive done enough or my mind is trying to sabotage me from talkinhg the next step.or maybe its all denial .Ive researched the hair whorl,finger index ,certain smells are giving off by homesexuals and women could tell with a high percentage someone was gay from just looking at a picture, gone on forums who say hocd is non existence and read storied about people who say they could be okay one day not thinking about homesexuality, and they next they could nt and in the end they have come out.
Also now i worry that i dont find female anatomy down there attrctive anymore so i watch spercific porn to see i do or do not like it, this happens from time to time in the cycle. I mean what straight man would think that??!??! i never use to.( all scarry)
It does not matter but it does, i just want what i had but i question that.it feels sometimes like my soul or god is trying to push me on journey to becoming gay, I did take your advice and have looked into therapy and hopefully will be starting soon. I realise that its all about changing cogntions but i worry that if i did follow through would i just be thinking myself straight and in the end just being indenial and not happy, again uncertainty, but before all this happened i was certain and never thought about the things i do now, i just cant understand why that would be without some phychoanylsis answer.
sorry again for the long post john this must be exacerbating.
My questions are do you think i have spectrum hocd, sexual idedntity crisis ocd, schizophrenia,hocd,bisexuality or a gay man stuck in denial?
Also can people maintain recovery i read alot on boards about people who relapse and never break? through but i suppose people dont post positive things.
How can i get motivated to change my life?
any help would be greatly appreciated, sorry for poor grammar
Great article. But I have one question, hope you’ll find time to answer.
I get aroused by gay porn (something I just discovered, I never liked it before), I notice good looking men in the street(actually I notice them, and I would think “damn that’s nice body, wish it was mine, I hate him for being hot”) , but I just can’t imagine myself with a man, I don’t like how they smell, I don’t like the fact that after all it is mans ass you have to…”touch”, I can’t imagine myself dating men, going out with them, just spending my life with a man is horrible idea, and something I am scared, like I will find out that I am gay and that everything I ever dreamed about is just some big fat lie.
I get arouse by staright porn (watched it all my life), I like girls anatomy, I am extremlly aroused by thought of being in love with a woman and having a family with her, I always dreamed of finding my princess, and I am fine with a role of a prince. I should say that those homosexual thoughts and feelings (if an erection is a feeling)makes me extremley anxious, like I want to puke whole day, i can’t eat, i can’t study… and everything started when a friend of mine asked me if i was gay, and he cane out to me saying he was gay. I am open minded, I said that it is ok for him, but I am not gay… after that I felt like I didn’t do the right thing, like I should have punch him, I should have call him names and leave, not be nice to him, and profing myself that in fact I am gay, but I just live in a lie… This is frustrating, I am terrefied of these thoughts, because I see myself only with a girl. I should mention that I never had any gay contacts (like lovers, boyfirends,sex) but I never had sex with a girl either, and I am 22. sorry for disturbing you with a loooooong comment, but I just had to gett this off my chests….
I am sorry to write again!!
I have been reading alot about gay men who are married and dont know their gay and find out they are gay futher down the line.i dont understand how this is possible unless they went through something like hocd before. Or men who knowingly are gay and in denial and still marry due to social reprecussions. If my experinces with women were all false due to being uncounciously brainwashed that homesexual is not acceptable, then the outcome could be as above, but i dont want to do that to someone so even if i do naturally want women, this is always gonna play on my mind so i cant be confident around women which in turn could drive me to being gay.
Also i have compulsively masterbated to straight porn and enjoyed it. this is also a problem. If i find women attractive and natural fantazise about it feels good and because it cuts out ocd it becomes a compulsion. this in turn i dont know lowers my testorene? and inturn i notice women less and men more, is this biological or a cognition ive weaved into my phsyche, is it distorted if a cognition,i keep compulsive masterbate untill i check gay porn and masterbate to that, which makes me feel angrey,fustrated and annoyed.
But some men have said that this is what they did and somewhere along the line things changed,, this is all very troublesome. It seems from what ive read that this is a growing trend that people are commenting on. sometimes i think that this does nt bother me as much and that i should just except the inevaitable. Also all these gaydar studies that are proving it is very much a sixth sense for gay men and women, it just makes me think the times after this started (ocd?) that women have commented means i have turned gay?
Please reply to the above comments with any insight and then BAN me from writing on this forum. I am using this as an outlet and i not questioning your medical opinion( i am very greatful for your opinion but as i am not paying you and this is out of your kindness) but it sort of sparks creativity from a fear to argue why i am differnt and not suffering from hocd, which i worry greatly i am not,
also maybe i should of put spike warnings or somethng,
thanks and sorry
Anon,
You write: My questions are do you think i have spectrum hocd, sexual idedntity crisis ocd, schizophrenia,hocd,bisexuality or a gay man stuck in denial?
—–HOCD.
You write: Also can people maintain recovery i read alot on boards about people who relapse and never break? through but i suppose people dont post positive things.
—–You are seeking certainty about the future success or failure of your future therapy which has not happened.
You write: How can i get motivated to change my life?
—-This is not a question I can answer. Though I can tell you that waiting for a certain feeling to overcome you before you do something about your ocd will keep you waiting for a very long time. Better to start now and have faith that motivation will come with improvement. Depression may be the culprit in your motivational issues, so that may need to be addressed.
The only other thing to comment on in your first post is the obsessional fear regarding the attractiveness of female genitalia. I’ve heard this from a lot of male ocd sufferers. It needs to be understood that people in general find genitals to be a bit silly looking and we find them arousing only within the context of the person we are with and what we are doing with them. Some people have fascinations with genitals on their own but I think it is somewhat less common. The HOCD sufferer is likely to think they are gay because they have a thought about vagina looking odd. Well, everything looks odd down there, make or female, and it looks even more odd when you burden it with analysis.
As for your second post, I can’t give you a satisfactory answer regarding what is going on with married men who “find out” they are gay. I comment on it in part 4 of this blog, but in the end you have to live with the uncertainty that this scary thing, whatever it is, could happen to you (you could also be struck by a meteor and telling me that gravity is a premonition).
Regarding the use of straight porn, consider that you are basically sacrificing something that could be a healthy and fun part of your sexual world for something compulsive and self-destructive. Better to set rules for yourself that involve NOT masturbating to straight porn as a response to an hocd spike.
In the end, you are not going to get the guidance you need from online forums. The best option for you is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) with an OCD specialist. Get that and you have every reason to believe you can get your freedom from ocd back.
Drake89, if I told you that a woman who identified as straight found lesbian porn to be arousing, would you assume she was a lesbian? Being aroused by a sexual thought, whether or not it is the sexual activity you would generally pursue in real life, is a normal experience that has nothing to do with defining one’s orientation. You can read more about gay fantasies and HOCD in our article about challenges to overcoming HOCD.
I think punching your friend is not an appropriate response for a person who is secure in their sexuality and not threatened by thoughts. It sounds like what you experienced with your friend coming out was a sort of “backdoor spike” in which the ocd says you’re gay because you didn’t act freaked out enough about your friend being gay.
Ultimately you need to allow yourself to have whatever thoughts and feelings (and urges and sensations) you have without judging them or trying to shut them down. If the idea of being with a man for the rest of your life sounds “horrible” then you should go ahead and pursue women. Maybe you will continue to have gay thoughts, maybe you won’t. This is not about sexual orientation, but is really about you trying to control your thoughts.
Hello, I need a bit of closure, okay this is the situation, pretty much everything that the main article is exactly me, I know that I am straight and to be honest if I was gay or bi I would admit it, I have that kind of personality. But those kinda of thoughts give me discomfort and I walkways check down there if I get turned on. I even tried to masterbate to homosexual themes. It felt horrible, it doesn’t feel good but the first time I did it, the orgasm was short and not satisfying. I did it a second time, because I have to do everything in even numbers, hence my OCD, and same result, for me I feel like I ejaculated because of the mechanics, in other words because I was touching myself. And I looked all over the Internet and found it is normal that a straight man can tell if another man is attractive but not have any sexual attraction to that person. Aesthetics essentially. And for me I do like “girly” stuff like taking care of my looks sometimes, gardening- or as I call it botany lol, and interior design and stuff like that but people like my sis tell me that doesn’t make me gay what makes you gay is well being gay lol person who wrote the article can you give me a bit of feed back on my comment sorry lol
Hi JKL77,
Having an interest in gardening or interior design isn’t evidence of being gay any more that than playing sports is evidence of being straight. The recent rash of pro athletes acknowledging that they are gay is ample proof of that.
I am guessing that the average guy could masturbate while thinking of paint drying and still have an orgasm. As you noted, “the mechanics” are such that you are likely to ejaculate regardless of what thoughts you are having when you masturbate.
And yes, it is normal and OK for men to recognize that other men are physically attractive.
Finally, allow me note that you don’t actually need “closure” on this issue, and that your attempts at finding closure may actually prolong your discomfort. My recommendation is that you instead accept that you are a guy who likes gardening, interior design, and taking care of his appearance, and who is able to acknowledge that some men are physically appealing.
Hello,
I am a long term OCD sufferer, I have had OCD since childhood from different topics from cartoons to religion. However, I have always been comfortable with my sexuality and my thoughts on girls and women. As well, as being accepting of gay people and other minorities.
This was until, I had a rectal examination, which was unexpected as a family friend took me to see a doctor for a urinary infection. I was caught off guard as I was not expecting this, my body language refused but the doctor insisted and I just let him. In the upcoming months I felt frustrated and angry as I felt that I was raped.
I felt i was unable to stand up for myself like any man would and I just started to have nightmares and I was unable to sit on a chair as I felt I was going to get raped.
I felt I could no longer qualify to be a heterosexual man. I truly felt ashamed as this was before I had had any sexual experiences with women. ThIs got worst as I remember, there was a gay guy at my workplace( although I am not sure if he was gay or not but he displayed many effeminate mannerisms) who I thought was thinking I was gay.
Then I thought, maybe he is thinking I am a hypocrite, how can I still call myself straight after this has happened. This just got worst as I read on the internet that so people had unwanted thoughts when they are trying to masturbate. So now, each time I am trying to masturbate to the women I like I see this individual’s face pop up or hear his name. All with the intention of making me doubt myself wondering was I masturbating because I liked the women or because of this person .
I feel like if the OCD is like the bullies at my workplace who used to hit me, trying to do me harm and trying to take away something I truly cheerished. This coming from negative self-talk. I could go on and on but I would like recommendations as to which therapies could help me as this last 5-6 years have been the harshes in my life from social isolation, racial discrimination, death of family members and issues with my parents. I feel emasculated.
Hi Tim,
Your comments strongly suggest OCD. It is important to remind yourself that just because you think something doesn’t mean it is true. Ultimately, there is no connection between having a rectal examination and being gay. Likewise, it is important to remind your self that your co-worker is not able to read your mind. And even if he could, what he (or anyone) thinks of your sexuality is not particularly important. I strongly suggest you seek out Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) with an OCD specialist who can help you address your OCD symptoms, as well as the negative self-talk you mentioned. Take care.
I am a straight person who never thought of boy to have sex etc. in my past. I had porn addiction and i have been suffering from hocd for last 4 months and these days your website helped me a lot bcz I knew what the hell is problem with me and your website almost reduced my depression and anxiety but still I am confused bcz I don’t know why I am loosing interest in girls but still not attracted to men. so please help me what the hell is happening with me. I am still looking for my sexuality ‘who am i’. but I don’t want to become gay or bi. please help .
Hi John,
Thanks for your comment. Losing interest in women and being gay are not the same thing. You say you are not attracted to men, and that indicates that you are not gay. Your loss of interest in women is an entirely separate matter. Perhaps your porn addiction is a factor. There has been some research that indicates excessive porn reduces libido. Click here to read a a good article about the impact of porn on libido.
So for people in these conundrums, how do know you’re NOT repressing yourself? Does a repressed person enjoy gay thoughts, but even if they might feel ashamed about them later?
Also, I tested negative for OCD, but I do have a generalized anxiety disorder and have had what I can only describe as HOCD before. I haven’t dated in a year and haven’t had sex in three. I’ve never been particularly interested in sex in general anyways unless I am approached by a girl first. Anyways, my lack of interest often causes me to think that I must be gay, since I evidently am not really that into girls. I get horrendous distracting panic when that happens though, and as far as I can tell, it is not an enjoyable thought to have.
So for instance, there were certain things that happened to me when I was very young. I didn’t talk about those things until I was 20, even though I always knew what had happened to me, but I just told myself it wasn’t a big issue and figured it would work itself out over time. Still, I knew what had happened. Is that repression? Or does repression make you completely forget all of that ?
Unknown,
You note that you have an overall lack of interest in sex, and wonder if that makes you gay. That’s like saying you don’t like ice cream at all, so you must like chocolate ice cream. Perhaps your lack of interest has nothing do with being gay or straight.
On the other hand, you also indicate that you like sex just fine when women approach you. That sounds pretty straight to me. I’ve yet to meet a gay guy who suddenly likes straight sex just because a woman shows interest in him. You may also want to make note of the whole “horrendous distracting panic” you experience when you have gay thoughts. That doesn’t sound like any gay guys I know.
As for wondering how you “know” you are not “repressing yourself”, the short answer is that you don’t get to know. Neither do I. Maybe I’m gay and don’t know it. That’s just one of life’s many uncertainties one must accept. But not knowing if you are repressed is not the same thing as being repressed. And the whole “repressed sexuality” thing is a bit of a paper tiger anyway. I have been treating HOCD for close to fifteen years, and have had exactly one client who was actually a closeted homosexual. It took less than one session together for us to realize this, after which she eagerly accepted that she was a lesbian (because she actually knew it all along).
Hello everyone,
I’m a 28 year old male from Switzerland. Please excuse my poor english skills.
I’d like to thank you so much, because I find your articles about HOCD so interesting and helpful to me.
Since elementary school I had always romantic feelings for girls and at the age of maybe 11 or 12 years, I started having also sexual fantasies about girls/ women.
So, since then I had so many times crushs on girls in my school, but every time I was too shy to ask a girl for a date or something.
At the age of 21 I was very hard in love with a girl I knew from university and asked her for a date. So we had a couple of dates but I was too reserved to kiss her or say her I was in love with her. A few months later she had a boyfriend (not me).
Last summer I was again in love with a girl and this time, everything went fine: I kissed her after our second date. We spend a wonderful time together. And maybe the most important thing: A lost my virginity to her and realized that sleeping with a girl I’m in love with is the most beautiful thing on earth for me.
Unfortunately, she ended our relationship after two months. In the first nights after, I cried during hours in my bed.
At the start of this year I was on a party in the appratment of a friend. I was sitting there on a sofa with some guys and suddenly I was thinking about one of the other guys “why does he not have a girlfriend? he is an attractive and very friendly man” and just a second after this thougt I was scared to death because I thought: “oh may god, am I gay?”
And since that moment, I spend almost every free moment with thining about the question if I’m gay or not. It would be very strange for me to be gay, but maybe it could accept it. I don’t want to be gay but if it’s the truth, I’m going to live as a gay man.
I look at every man on the streets an check myself, if I find him attractive. I had a couple of times crushs on attractive and friendly men which scares my to death every time. I read in the internet about coming out and homosexuality. I know that many people with HOCD look gay porns just to check for arousals but I didn’t so far because the possibilty of feeling arousal scares me too much.
The strange thing is, I’m absolutely not homophobic. I even have one or two gay buddies. I see beeing gay as a natural, normal thing which is in my opinion of a high degree genetically related.
I also started thinking about my past. In the last few years, I met maybe two or three times other men which triggered in the first moment a sort of crush or attractivness or amorousness in me that was very frightening to me. But after I knew them better, the feeling disappeared and I realized, I just wanted to be good friends with them.
But now I reflect very often on these situations if they meant that I’m a latent homosexual. Or maybe it were beginnings of a HOCD which were cancelled for some reason?
In my sexual fantasies I sometimes imagine of seeing a straight couple having sex, and then I sometimes imagine of beeing not only the man having sex with the woman but also beeing the women having sex with the man. So far this fantasies were a normal part of my sexual fantasies and I never refected much about it but now, I fear that they are an indicator of latent homosexuality.
But at the same time, I think I’m straight: I NEVER had a sexual fantasy of having sex with another man in my whole life. And I was so often in love with girls and never with a man. In all my romantic and sexual dreams and daydreams appeared only girls.
The most shocking thing for me woudn’t be beeing gay. What I fear the most is the possibility of never falling in love with a girl and never have sex with a girl again.
I’m under medical treatment by an psychiatrist now since three weeks. He said he doesn’t think I’m gay and that I’d be a very good example for an OCD-sufferer.
And since my youth I have a long history of anxiety disorder, dysmorphophobia and eating disorder. All kind of problems which are related to OCD.
But the problem is: These homosexual feelings feel so REAL…very often I’m convinced that I AM gay and I denied it so far during my whole life.
It’s all so corrupting…but thanks for reading folks.
Greetings from Johannes
Hi Johannes,
Sorry for the delay in replying. Your comment was originally diverted to our spam file.
I’m not sure how having a random thought about a guy at a party being attractive makes you gay? I’m straight and I think there are lots of attractive guys in the world. The problem is that you are over-valuing this thought and spending way too much time trying to figure why you had the thought. The ampunt of time this thought deserves is exactly zero.
You note that you have in the past had “crushes” on a few men for a “moment”. But you also note that you were frightened by this thought each time. That doesn’t sound gay – that sound like HOCD.
Your fears of never having sex with a girl again and never falling in love with a girl again are extremely common in HOCD.
It sounds like your psychiatrist has accurately identified the problem as OCD. I encourage you to continue treatment, but be sure he understands how to appropriately treat your OCD using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
As I was growing up I never knew what gay was. I was a curious from about 12 to 27. I had gay moments but never slept with a dude or had sexual incounters. At the age of 27 I decided that this was not for me but consentalty battle with what if I was gay battling my thoughts, action, the way I talked. My core values and desires do not aline with my thought process. I been anxious about the thoughts, searching constantly online for hope of this going away, It freaked me out that I can never love a woman again, I am going to lose my way with sexual arosal with a woman and the thoughts are going to become me. I fight with them all the time and it has become demoralizing and debilitating. I am not gay but I feel like I am, my thoughts never go to sleep, they are constantly intruding my thought process not of sexual thoughts but what if I’m gay. All of a sudden every dude is triggering anxioty what the heck is that.
What I am saying is , I desire to love one woman, i get arosd by women, my desire is to marry a woman and make love to a woman. I can’t see myself hand and hand with a dude. My past is one thing but who I am today and what I want is another. Yet I can’t break this anxiety thinking if I am gay or not. My brain is flooded with unwanted thoughts and emotions and it is killing me. I just want to be normal and think clear. I feel weak and not masculine. What is this sound like to you.
Alex,
You note that, in the past, you “had gay moments but never slept with a dude or had sexual encounters”. I have no idea what that means. If you weren’t having sex with men or having “sexual encounters” with men, what exactly were the “gay moments”?
That said, you ask, what this sounds like to me, so let’s break down your comments:
My core values and desires do not aline with my thought process
Your core values sound pretty straight to me.
I been anxious about the thoughts
Sounds like HOCD to me.
…and serching constantly online for hope of this going away
Sounds like a compulsion to me.
I can never love a woman again
I see no evidence that you cannot love a woman just because you have had some unwanted thoughts.
I am going to lose my way with sexual arousal with a woman.
That sounds like you are afraid you will no longer be attracted to, or sexually aroused by, women, which is a classic HOCD thought.
The thoughts are going to become me.
Not quite sure how that would happen. We all have goofy thoughts, and our thoughts don’t “become” us.
I fight with them (the thoughts) all the time.
Sounds like a compulsion to me
I am not gay…
Sounds pretty straight to me.
…but I feel like I am
Sounds like HOCD to me.
My thoughts never go to sleep, they are constantly intruding my thought process not of sexual thoughts but what if I’m gay.
Sounds like textbook HOCD.
I desire to love one woman, I get aroused by women, my desire is to marry a woman and make love to a woman.
Sounds really straight to me. I’ve yet to meet a gay guy who has any of these thoughts.
I can’t see myself hand and hand with a dude.
Sounds pretty straight to me.
I can’t break this anxiety thinking if I am gay or not. My brain is flooded with unwanted thoughts and emotions and it is killing me.
Sounds like textbook HOCD to me.
All in all, sounds like you are straight guy, who just happens to have HOCD!
Hello there, interesting articles!
I have been in therapy for a while, but still there are some days that I can have a short relapse of my compulsion which is to come online and ask, and bla bla.
Is it possible to have HOCD and Harm OCD at the same time? I’m living a very stressful family situation and seem to have developed these two. As for the HARM OCD, well in the past I was a bit impulsive and angry person and could shout my mum in a bad way, even sometimes slammed her and felt like shit afterwards. So the fear remains there that I might be violent and do some horrible (which I don’t want, as I love her) ironically, such thoughts lead me to have bad mood and even reply bad to my mum.
As for the second, well man.. I’m 23 years old. Have been deeply in love twice with girls. I’m virgin but when I madeout with this girl it felt really like heaven. I have only thoughts of girls all my life. But as for the last year or such I have these stupid thoughts, even can find myself uncomfortavle around a handsome man, as I fear that recognizing he is handsome is practically admitting I’m gay lol.
I have even come to the point that since such thoughts can be recurring I say to myself, “ok I’m gay” but then I think… wait a moment I become a Casanova whenever I see a pretty girl and can’t prevent flirting with her so maybe I’m bi” and such, an entire rumination until I come back to the point of not knowing who I am, but simply that a pretty girl specially Russian hypnotizes me!
So yeah my question goes to the grain in the sense that, are all this OCD’s exchangable between them and can you have different kinds of them at the same time? Oh, I should also mention the lesser one sometimes of thinking I’m going crazy 🙂
Hi Bob on the roof,
Thanks for your comments.
First off, I’m glad that you can recognize that one of your compulsions is to go online and ask questions about your OCD! That said…
There is nothing unusual about HOCD and Harm OCD at the same time. They are not separate conditions, just variations on a theme. Or to put it another way, one is chocolate and one is vanilla, but they are both ice cream. In other words, they are both just OCD. And yes, thinking you are going crazy is also very common in OCD. We have treated many clients who have had all three of these obsessions at the same time.
when i was 11 i did something kinda gay it wasn’t sex or anything like that it was just like a touch (not in a pedophile way) i didn’t like it at all and I’ve been straight all my life since that happened and i regret doing that i don’t even know why i would do it and im sure im not gay and i always have to repeat myself that im not gay i get images in my head i dont want and i cant go out because i feel someone might see me gay or that i would act feminine i cant look at people of the same sex at the face i had sex many times i enjoyed it all the time. And im not scared that i wouldnt be accepted by people im just scared of being someone im not wich is straight so can you please help me and tell me if this is a type of HOCD
Hi Frank,
If I have this right, you had minimal, one-time, same sex experimentation as a child, but:
a) it was just a touch, not sex
b) you didn’t like it
c) you regret it
d) you don’t even know why you did it (hint: you were a child)
e) you’ve been straight all of your life
f) you are sure you are not gay
g) you have enjoyed straight sex many times and have enjoyed it
That sounds very straight to me. And yes, all of what you wrote sounds exactly like HOCD. Especially when you note that your real fear is that you will somehow be someone you’re not, which is essentially impossible (but also a fairly common fear in HOCD).
Your goal is to stop doing compulsions and avoidant behaviors (repeating to yourself that you are straight, not going out, not looking at men in the face, etc.), and to accept that your brain likes to lie to you about your sexual orientation. But you don’t have to believe or even pay attention to that lie.
Finally, allow me add that, if someone thinks of you as being gay or feminine, that’s their concern, not yours. I am quite confident that some people have thought I was gay, to which the only reasonable response is “so what”.
I don’t know if its strange but I have been obsessed with gay people, gay stories, gay stuff overall and I constantly talk about it. Now I’m wondering if I might be gay because of the obsession. I always been attracted to men not women. I know I’m straight but the thoughts are killing me, and Im reading other forums for reassurance
Hi Lola,
Thinking and talking a lot about gay stuff doesn’t make one gay. If, as you note, you’ve always been attracted to men, and as you also note, you find these thoughts to be really uncomfortable, then you are likely to be a straight person who just happens to have HOCD.
Hi. First of all, I’d like to congrat you on the excellent article! it’s really helpfull.
I’m 23 years old and as long as I remember, I have always been attracted to men. I’m currently on a relationship for about a year and a half with my boyfriend.
My story started about 2 months ago, when I went on a party with my friends (all female) and sudennly i felt some kind of physical attraction towards the one i consider my best friend. This thougt scared me to death!
She is a relationship with a girl, so i don’t know to wich point this has triggered the situation.
Since that night I’ve never been the same person. I’m always anxious, nervous about the possibility of being in love with her and that thought just freaks me out.
When i hang out with my boyfriend i’m anxious all the time, thinking i’m “cheating on him” because of this thoughts that seem to never leave my brain!
This thought slowly turned to something like “Can i be turning lesbian?” and i started to search on the internet and everywhere about how someone starts to be gay. Of course, all of this led me to feel even more anxious, till I found your article, wich seems to fit my symptoms.
However, I still have a lot of doubts. Some days I even doubt the way I feel about my boyfriend. I know i love him, but somehow things have changed and when he gets closer i can’t feel aroused, only anxious. All of this is worrying me a lot. I can’t picture myself on a relationship with a woman and don’t want to lose him!
When i’m watching tv or i’m walking on the street, i seem to focus my attention more on women than on men! I find myself thinking “this girl is so much more attractive than that man” and I’ve clearly become obsessed with the female parts. I don’t remember to have noticed them so much as I do now, and this makes me feel bad…
I have a few questions:
1. All i’ve been feeling for the last 2 months seem to fit in the HOCD thing, except for the lack of attraction towards my boyfriend.. i mean, i don’t know, can this be a consequence?
2. What can i do to stop feeling guilty about the thought of mentally “have cheated” on him, because of what I felt towards my friend on that night?
3. The last night I had a dream about her, and on that dream we were kissing each other. I woke up feeling very anxious, thinking it might prove that i’m actually in love with her. Can this, as well, be a part of the HOCD?
I feel so helpless, i’d give anything to get back my old “me”! I used to be happy with my boyfriend and life in general.. now all i can think about are doubts and more doubts.
Hi Tina,
To answer your questions…
1) The feeling of diminished attraction to one’s partner is extremely common in HOCD. Part of this is that anxiety is a very powerful feeling and it may be overwhelming your experience of attraction. But more importantly, you are over-attending to your feelings and and over-valuing your feelings. Most people without HOCD don’t spend any time at all analyzing their attraction to their partner.
2) You haven’t cheated on your boyfriend just because of something you thought or felt. It would only be cheating if you actually acted on those thoughts and feelings, which sounds like something you have no interest in doing. Simply put, if thoughts and feelings about sex with (or attraction to) other people is “cheating”, then every person who has ever had a boyfriend or girlfriend is a cheater because everyone has thoughts and feelings about other people.
3) There is nothing unusual about people with HOCD (or people without HOCD) having sexual activity in their dreams which doesn’t match their waking life. I am guessing that you have had all sorts of weird dreams in your life, and this is just one more example of that. It doesn’t “prove” anything except that you, like everybody else on the planet, have dreams that are flavored by the content of your daily thoughts, feelings and experiences.
You state that “I’m 23 years old and as long as I remember, I have always been attracted to men”, which does not sound like any of the lesbians I know. The feeling of “doubt” is the core experience of HOCD. I encourage you to accept these unwanted thoughts and feelings as just being a normal part of HOCD, and to resist the urge to analyze them.
Take care.
Hello,
I have been dealing with HOCD for a few years and I am just on the edge of finally extinguishing it. The only issue I have left are these physical sensations.
Whenever I see a man who is slightly attractive, I get extreme anxiety and feel like I have to throw up. Accompanying this is my obsession about NOT getting an erection or any bloodflow in my penis. I critically analyze my penis to check for any signs of movement (I know, this is bad). Sometimes, it goes on for many hours (as much as 7 hours).
Is it possible that simply putting this much attention and anxiety around not feeling my penis getting larger COULD be the reason that this happens.
I need to know if my theory is correct, because if it is, I can simply stop giving it so much attention.
Thank you, your articles are amazing.
Hi Jeremy,
Your comment brings up one of the key things about OCD – when people over-attend to thoughts, feelings or sensations, they make these things seem far more important than they actually are. In other words, your over-attending to your penis sensations (both mentally and physically checking for arousal and blood flow) is making things much worse for you.
You are spending waaaaaaaay too much time thinking about your penis. Let it do whatever it wants to do, without analyzing it and without checking it for signs of arousal or blood flow.
Ok so a few months ago i thought I was bi because i admired some guys’ looks and body (Althought now I know that I was never a bi because I never thought of going out with them or kissing them or having sex with them). I only THOUGHT I was bi and I didnt mind it because I had STRONG love for girls. And one day my friend told me that gays are always bi first but lose interest to girls and finally become gay. And that day was the start of my nightmare. I was so scared that I will lose interest in girls and now it seems like I almost did lose interest in girls. Sometimes I dont feel arousal to girls at all and sometimes I do. When I dont, I get freaked out so bad and i get so anxious and I start thinking whether I am gay. But I have loved, been attracted to girls my whole life for 18 years. I try to convince myself that I cant just suddenly turn gay but this only lasts for a few days and hocd comes back.
When ever I am anxious I try to check whether I am attracted to guys and whenever I see dicks and six packs I dont get hard on my private area and I am not aroused but my mind tells me that I am trying to deny that I like it and I get confused whether I am just denying that I like them or whether I actually dont feel anything.
I also saw from the internet that real gays fear the consequence of coming out whereas hocd people fear being gay. At first I was fearing being gay but now my mind tells me that I am really gay and I am fearing because of consequence of coming out not becuase I am scared of being gay. This freaks the hell out of me and makes me so anxious and scared that I might be really gay. ANd then I dont even know whether I am attracted to guys or not.
The worse thing is when I am successful convincing that I am not attracted guys but then I feel I am not attracted to girls anymore and this makes the cycle continue, thinking I might be gay cuz I feel I am not attracted to girls anymore.
And recently I have the fear whether I am hocd or really gay becuase although I dont feel any sexual, romantic arousal from gay sex and hot males, I dont feel disgusted either and I get SOOO scared of this. What if I am gay now because I am not disgusted by the though but I just dont feel anything.
Last night for the first time i had a wet dream where I was looking at a guys dick which was moving (and it was covered because he was wearing a sportswear), there was no sex or me sucking his dick or anything, it was just looking at it moving and it was a wet dream. and I got so scared after the dream i started panicking. Can you please help me?
Is it possible to suddenly lose interest in girls after all the 18 years of loving girls? I really dont want to be gay. I keep thinking I am denying that I am gay, I am so scared and I cant stop thinking about being gay.
And now, my anxiety level went down a lot in the last week but it came back badly last night because of the thought that I am not fearing and am not terrified and I thought this meant that I am not terrified by gay sex/gay stuff anymore and thus I am truely gay now. I became so scared. I also read an article saying HOCD people are terrified and disgusted by gay thoughts but I dont feel terrified or disgusted anymore (i used to until a few weeks ago) but i just dont feel anything AT ALL just no arousal and no terror. SO I am scared that I might really be gay now. Is that possible? PLease help me.
Hi Jack,
Everything in your comment sounds like HOCD.
You wrote: “Recently I have the fear whether I am hocd or really gay becuase although I dont feel any sexual, romantic arousal from gay sex and hot males, I dont feel disgusted either and I get SOOO scared of this. What if I am gay now because I am not disgusted by the thought but I just dont feel anything.”
That’s like saying “I have always liked broccoli. But I noticed today that I am not disgusted by brussel sprouts, so now I am concerned that I don’t like broccoli and secretly like brussel sprouts.”
Have you considered the possibility that you can take your lack of disgust as face value. In other words, maybe your lack of disgust doesn’t mean that you are gay – maybe it just means that you are not disgusted by homosexuality.
The bottom line is that you are overanalyzing your thoughts, feelings, and sensations, and now even your dreams. So you had a wet dream last night. There is nothing unusual about this, and it says absolutely nothing about your sexual orientation. People dream about all sorts of things that are far more bizarre than seeing a guy’s penis move.
Hi Tom,
So at this juncture, the thing that really throws me off and into mini anxiety attacks is every time I read about Freud or Psychoanalysis and homosexuality. You did handily debunk the “latent homosexuality” theory, but then I heard about Reaction Formation, where something that causes you distress or anxiety causes you to act the opposite way. For instance, if I was afraid that I was gay, I might try to cover it by being homophobic or by acting like I was more interested in girls than I actually am.
I am 26 and spend inordinate amounts of time dwelling on this topic. I have gotten to the point where when I panic, I can say to myself “stop panicking, and if you’re actually gay, just enjoy the thoughts”. This usually works well, but I feel like it’s just another way of checking/reassurance. Upon hearing about reaction formation though, I thought “uh oh, what I just pretend to be interested in women because I am trying to fool other people or myself”?
The only logical explanation I have is that due to some sexual abuse by another male in my childhood, I associated what happened as “gay”, and now constantly worry that because of the various things that happened and the fact that I was complicit in them, I was either gay or afraid that people would find out what happened to me and would think I was gay. Now the question is “Am I reacting the way I am because I’m insecure from what happened to me as a child, or because I’m actually hiding something”?
Still, I feel like after five years of going around in circles with this idea, if I was gay I would have figured it out by now given all the time I spend thinking about it. I am just plain confused…would love any insight you might be able to offer. Thank you!
Hi Drew,
Reading about psychological theories in an effort to better understand your unwanted thoughts about your sexual orientation is a compulsion that will only make your OCD worse. I strongly encourage you to stop reading such things immediately.
That said, as for your concern that your interest in women is just a reaction formation, I would like to suggest an alternative theory – maybe you just like women! There is simply no reason to search for complicated explanations of why you find women attractive. After all, do you question why you like chocolate or movies or sports or whatever else it is that you like? Of course not. To use a quote often attributed to Freud, “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”.
Finally, allow me to note that you needn’t tell yourself to enjoy your unwanted thoughts about being gay. All you need to do is allow them to exist. Take a neutral stance towards the presence of your unwanted thoughts – they are neither good nor bad, they just “are”.
Could you please help me with this? Although as I have mentioned, I have always loved girls, now I dont get aroused by looking at girls or i barely do (barely erection) and this really makes me panick but when i see gay stuff i am not aroused that much either which relieves me. But then when i look at attractive women again and i dont feel aroused that scares me again and makes me think that I am gay but I am denying. And this scares me so much. Help me please.
Is this just anxiety making me feel not aroused by women’s areas?
Hi Jack,
The most important thing you can do to address your OCD is to accept the discomfort of your unwanted thoughts (i.e, accepting that your brain produces the thought “OMG, what if I no longer find women attractive!”), without doing compulsions in an effort to blunt the force of the thoughts. For example, you have submitted some variant of this question to us eight times over the past 48 hours. This is a compulsion that will never result in relief. A better course of action would be to allow the unwanted thought about your sexual orientation to exist without seeking reassurance about it.
I encourage you to seek Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) with an OCD specialist. Take care.
Thank you for your response. Is this the same thing as “mindfulness”?
Hi Drew,
Yes – when we talk about accepting unwanted thoughts and paying them no heed, we are talking about mindfulness and acceptance. A good resource for better understanding these concepts in terms of their application to OCD and anxiety is here. You may also want to read a wonderful article about mindfulness written by one of our staff therapists, Kimberley Quinlan.
I regretfully want to go back to my past and fix my mistake of watching lesbian porn and lesbian and yuri manga. I only watch/read out of curiousity.Now my mind is playing with me with the uncertainity. I don’t want to be a lesbian or bisexual. I never been attracting sexually or emotionally. Now feeling guilty or denial but deep down I know I’m straight. I constantly checking/reassurance. I tend to spike when it comes gay couple, or rainbow, the L or G. When I approach female, I either want to be like them or wanted to be their friends. Does it sound that I’m a lesbian or do I have hocd
Hi Lola,
Going back to undo the past is not an option that is available to us. But accepting the past is.
You watched lesbian porn out of curiosity, but you don’t find the idea of being with a woman to be sexually or emotionally satisfying. That sounds pretty straight to me.
I encourage you to accept that you are a curious person who found lesbian porn and Yuri Manga to be worth exploring. That doesn’t make you a lesbian. I enjoy reading detective novels in which people get killed on a regular basis, yet I am not a killer, and have no interest in being a detective. I assume there are many things in life that you have explored only to discover that they were not that interesting to you, or didn’t fit who you are. That’s OK.
hi sir i’m a 20 years old girlplease help me
i’m really confused i can’t live anymore !!! i suffer from hocd from 6 years !! i always had straight dreams but from 3 months i had 2 gay dreams and i can’t live with any more i’m despreate ..!!! i’m with my boyfreind from 2 years i looooove him !!!! but this dreams kills me !! ok the first dream ( i dreamed that i’m surrounded by two naked girls but i didn’t saw their faces and they proposed me to have sex and it excited me and i woke up extreamly scared.
the second is even harder i dreamed that a women i don’t know came to our house than she went out but suddenly i was like rubbing my body on a body without seeing her body or seeing what i’m doing exactly i was happy to be arousal and i said to myself ( finally i’m not cold any more because of this hocd but why i don’t get excited like this with my boyfreind ) and in this minute i realise that she is a women and say to my self ( but what are you doing she is a women ) and in this moment i saw her body because i didn’t see it before in the action and i’m not excited any more !!!!! and i woke up terrified
PS : in my straight dreams persons that i dream of really like in reality and excite me in the dream because they are beautiful and sexy or …. but in those dreams i feel like not excited for them or whatever …. i don’t know what to do help me pleaaaaaaaaaaase i can’t live any more
Hi Julie,
Dreams are just dreams and they have no meaningful connection to reality. Humans dream every night when they sleep, so I am assuming you have had thousands of dreams which have contained images and situations that have been unrealistic. Think of a dream as a piece of fiction. It may be compelling, but that doesn’t mean it is actually happening.
Your goal is to accept that human brains think up all sorts of wild things – even when we sleep! Much of what we think, including dreams, is unimportant an doesn’t merit any attention.
thank you sir but in the first dream i concluded that i wasn’t excited for the girl in the dream i was excited by the action not by her it self and i’m sure of it !!!! is this possible ??
thanks sir
Julie,
It doesn’t matter if you were excited by the girl or by the action – it was just a dream.
but how to say it’s just a dream when some nights i have some straight dreams about guys that i saw in the day and really liked or excited me and get erotic dreams about them !!! that’s why i told you that i conclued that this 2 dreams were about action ::!!!!
Julie,
I say it is a dream because…it is just a dream. You are over-valuing the content of the dream, as if dreaming something makes it true.
As I noted in my earlier reply, people dream about all sorts of things. Dreams are inherently bizarre and unrealistic, and there is no reason to believe that this particular dream has special meaning. And if your dreams are of particular significance, then the “straight” erotic dreams you report having must be “proof” that you are straight.
So i had classic hocd before and then for a while the ocd theme switched.. and now im back to the fear of being gay..thid time i focused more on the romantic feelings rather than the sexual ones…its been hell…. cuz i kinda know sexually i want women and thats really how it all started…. but the romantic attractions feel so real…..i feel lik i want men romantically and its the worst. I wud be ok with beig bisexual as long as i didnt fall in love with men….thats my only thing…..i feel lik im not ocd and its horrible…i feel so gay and please help
Hi Lee,
I wouldn’t get too concerned about changes in the theme of your OCD. It is extremely common for the theme of one’s obsessions to morph over time, and to cycle back to specific themes that the individual finds particularly upsetting.
It sounds like you are over-analyzing your thoughts and feelings in an attempt to differentiate between “sexual” feelings and “romantic” feelings. This attempt to figure out what your thoughts and feelings are, and what they mean, is a mental compulsion.
The bottom line is that you don’t need to analyze your thoughts and feelings at all, and doing so will only fuel your obsessions. Just allow whatever thoughts and feelings you experience to exist and make no effort to understand them or categorize them or control them. Accept that your brain, just like everybody else’s brain, will continue to come up with weird, unwanted thoughts and feelings. The key is to not pay attention to them and to not value them as being “important” – to not give them fuel.
Hi. I think I may be sufferring from HOCD. I am 25 years old and am diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. For all my life since I was a child I was attracted to women. 3 years ago I was psychotic, and i was also masturbating. Then I realized that I masturbated to the thought of a man. After that I felt like i turned gay but it felt so unnatural. I felt like I had compulsive sexual thoughts about men but I didnt want them. I felt miserable. I tried to prove to myself that I wasn’t gay by going to a club and dancing sexually with a woman. I’m not sure how long these unwanted thoughts lasted. Unfortunately later that year i became more psychotic and was hospitalized. The doctors put me on risperdal and it completely blunted my libido. For a long time I just assumed that I was straight and that i was just going thruogh some kind of phase. Recently, the thought that I might be gay popped up into my mind again because i started to think about what i experienced before. The thing is I dont ever remember having gay dreams. Ive only had heterosexual dreams my entire life until now. When I talked to my parents and my brother and one of my closest friends about this they all told me that my supposed gay feelings were a delusion. For example, Ive had delusions that I was from a different religion and thus going to Hell, that I’m evil, etc. They say that me thinking im a homosexual was a delusion like those. My mom says that me having only heterosexual dreams are a proof that I am straight. Is this true? I’ve also tried to pursue a girl romantically recently. but im wondering if its due to me subconscioulsy wanting to prove to myself that im straight. And I also feel sexually aroused when i see pictures of naked women or women dressed provactively. But Im still afraid that those feelings that I had before might still be there since i can’t tell due to my blunted libido. I read some places that sexual orientation can change spontaneously. Is this true? Im afraid that mine did and i wont be able to go back to being straight. Any help would be appreciated.
Hi John,
Regardless of what you have heard, people do not spontaneously change their sexual orientation. Furthermore, just because you masturbated to the thought of being a with a man doesn’t make you gay. In fact, it sounds like you had an emotionally negative response to having done so, whereas a gay man would almost certainly have a positive response. And gay dreams do not mean one is gay. People dream all sorts of things that have absolutely no relationship to reality.
The most important advice I can give you is to discuss your thoughts with your therapist and psychiatrist. Take care.
hi can you help me please
i suffer from hocd from 7 years i havea huge probleme i’m going die
one day i was watching a movie suddenly a men kisses his wife’s toes , i suddenly remembered that when i was 8 and my brother 6 he always kissed my toes ( childhood games ) so i said why i don’t try to imagine a woman leg and star kising her toes and see if i’m excited or not just to be calm and this idea won’t hunt me ..
so i started and trying to do the exact moves that my brother were doing to me while imaging the toes where in my mouth and suddenly i feel arousal whyyyyyyy please ??? i never liker women legs never want to do it !!!! i feel that i’m going to die ….
Hi Kate,
As you note, what you did with your brother was a “childhood game”. In fact, it does not sound like that experience was even remotely sexual. That said, it may have been fun and pleasurable.
You also note that you have OCD, and for many (most?) people with OCD, the content of their obsessions tends to focus on things that they find unacceptable on some level. It sounds like you find the idea of being a lesbian unacceptable. That certianly doesn’t mean that you are a lesbian, or even that you dislike lesbians. It just means that you are very uncomfortable with the idea of you being a lesbian. Now add to that the fact that you have OCD, and you have the perfect recipe for obsessions about being a lesbian.
The real problem here is that you decided to test yourself when you had an unusual, unexpected thought. A better approach would be to accept that, just like everyone else, you sometimes have unusual, unexpected thoughts, and that these thoughts do not merit testing. In fact, for people with OCD, testing is the worst possible thing to do, as it is likely to lead to a spike in obsessions (as it did for you).
The bottom line is accept the existence of the weird thought, without testing yourself to see what the weird thought means. It doesn’t mean anything, other than that you are a normal person who has normal, though sometimes unexpected thoughts. And being someone with OCD, you are likely to then obsess about some of these thoughts.
Please help me im 16, my first experience with HOCD was a few months ago, i woke up from an HOCD dream about a male person, i was terrified and traumatized from it, i got the ‘groin sensation’ as well from it. I spent hours looking on the internet and finally realized this was to do with HOCD. This made me feel a lot better and i felt back to normal within a few days. However a few months later when i got my depression and this is when things get really confusing for me. I slowly began to obsess over whether or not i find people of the same gender sexually attractive or just simply attractive. But now i have Bi-sexual OCD i believe. I used to have an un-shakable belief that i was straight, never would i have thought that i could possibly become bi-sexual, i simply loved women so much. I began reading story’s of how people who had been straight for most of their life, realised that they were in fact bi-sexual all along but didnt know it. At first this scared me very much, but i have got so used to these bi-sexual thoughts that i cant tell if i really am ‘discovering’ my true sexuality or not. The thoughts are so frequent that i have become used to the thought of gay sex and it isnt even repulsive anymore, its almost as though i like them, but i just dont know if i do or not.
Hi Zakk,
I don’t think you had an “HOCD dream” – I think you had a gay dream. There is nothing unusual about a straight person having a gay dream. People dream all sorts of stuff that has no relationship to their life.
Also, when people dream, they naturally have increased blood flow to their genitals. It is completely normal for men to have erections when they dream, regardless of the content. You could be dreaming about paint drying and you would have a hard-on.
The problem here is not the dream, but your compulsive reaction to the dream. You report spending hours researching a dream that probably lasted just minutes. That math is a pretty good indicator that you have OCD. You are also reading stories about people people dealing with their sexual orientation, which is another compulsion.
You don’t need to analyze your dreams or your thoughts, and doing so will only makes your OCD worse. I encourage you to stop doing compulsions, and accept that your brain, just like my brain and everyone else’s brain, comes up with some thoughts that are not of your choosing. Let the thought exist without giving it so much attention (preferably no attention at all).
Well i can sort of understand what caused the dream. I was walking home with a mate who is a probably a closet gay. He was saying all sorts of weird stuff about gay sex, i thought it was quite weird and kept ignoring him. The next day i woke up from this quite scary ‘gay’ dream. I was absolutely terrified, but read up about HOCD and i felt fine and back to normal after a few days. Then i got depression not long after, and that is when i began to analyze almost every thought i have.Surely if the thought of gay sex doesn’t provoke a huge amount of disgust, i will be more inclined to turn bisexual later in life?. I like bodybuilding and do it myslef, and i admire the physiques of people have created these amazing bodies.I and others agree that there are some ‘beautiful’ bodies that people have created, but i feel uncomfortable that i may begin to not only look at the male body as something that can be beautiful, but something that is sexually attractive also.
Hi Zakk,
You wrote “surely if the thought of gay sex doesn’t provoke a huge amount of disgust, i will be more inclined to turn bisexual later in life”.
Well, I completely disagree with that statement. I am not sure how or where you learned that a lack of disgust with something means you are likely to want that thing at some undefined point in the future. I am not even remotely disgusted by the idea of gay sex, and at the age of 56, I have yet to become gay or bi. A lack of disgust doesn’t mean you somehow want that thing. I am not disgusted by turnips, they just aren’t something I care for. And I doubt I will want them in the future.
You also wrote “i began to analyze almost every thought i have”. And that is exactly the problem. Your analysis is a perfect example of a mental compulsion. I encourage you to stop analyzing your thoughts, and to accept that you have all sorts of thoughts, some of which you would prefer not to have (like turnips).
I was just wondering if it’s normal to have one or two gay thoughts before the onset of hocd? And also is it normal to start noticing men more than women while suffering with hocd? sometimes I feel as if I like these thoughts but I have next to anxiety except when my heart starts beating fast
Hi G.,
It is completely normal to have any amount of gay thoughts. They are just thoughts. Gay people don’t spend their time trying to figure out what their gay thoughts mean, just as straight people don’t analyze their straight thoughts. As for “noticing men more than women”, that sounds to me like you are checking to see whether you are noticing men, which is a common compulsion in HOCD.
Great article mate .. I will be brief with my story just very very lost at the moment.. I’m a 29 year old male who I believe has OCD hocd I hope .. I have been in a relationship with my girl for 9 years which has had some very rough times and caused some high stress levels.. I believe this started for me a year ago where the classic am I gay question came up over a weekend but went away 2 days later . About 3 months ago my girl left me and I was lost . I have had anxiety my hole life and believe I have rocd as well.. My first obsession was over my heart I even took myself to hospital over it . Then after a panic attack one night after talking to a girl I shouldn’t have this hit .. It hit me so hard I didn’t know what I felt.. I constantly check for arousal check websites I just don’t know what to do it feels so real… Please help
Hi Luke,
Thanks for your comments.
The first thing I want to note is that gay guys don’t have nine-year romantic/sexual relationships with women. So the evidence is pretty clear that you are straight. You are overvaluing some random thoughts you had about being gay and giving them more weight than they deserve (more weight than a nine year heterosexual relationship). It is also worth noting that HOCD quite frequently accompanies ROCD. Think of them as two sides of the same coin.
Checking yourself for arousal and checking websites to verify your sexual orientation are bound to backfire. I encourage you to seek Cognitive Behavioral Therapy with an OCD specialist, as this is your best bet in addressing these thoughts.
this is destroying me now, after this started I’ve tested my self with gay and recently got an erection, and it’s come to the point now where I have even masturbated to it,but I didn’t freak out that much afterwards which made me think I am gay. does this mean I’m gay? or could still be ocd?
Hi G,
If I understand this correctly, it sounds like you “tested” yourself to see if you would get aroused by masturbating to a gay thought or image, and were upset to discover that you got an erection. But you would get an erection if you masturbated to anything. If you doubt that, try this experiment – masturbate while envisioning something neutral – perhaps a car driving down the road or an open field with some trees in it. I predict you will have an erection in no time flat…because you are masturbating. You could masturbate to paint drying on a wall and get an erection. And you say you didn’t “freak out” afterwards, while at the same time saying this is “destroying” you. That sounds like a bit of a “freak out” to me.
Hey doc im so happy to say that my hocd has reduced thanks to your article.Yesterday i was watching kids all right movie and while watching it a gay scene poped up in the movie and it had no effect on me nor did i felt aroused which i never did at first place , no excitement and the sensations were reduced drastically.
Which makes me understand that groin sensations are nothing and it ought not be confused with erection or arousal , fear or concentrating on one particular object causes it.Doc please keep on writing such articles so people may learn more about it.
Hi Nando,
Thanks for your comments. I’m glad to hear that you have found our articles helpful.
sorry to bother you again, before this ‘hocd’ started I had a 6 month obsession with having some form of illness or disease despite doctors telling me numerous times I was fine, now recently I have read that with ocd you have a different obsession every other day. So is it still ocd where I am obsessing over the one theme for months at a time with no other fears?
Hello again G.,
I’m not sure where you read that with OCD, one will have a different obsession every day. While that is possible, it is also possible (and far more common) for a person to have one consistent theme for an extended period of time. Likewise, it is quite common for people to have multiple concurrent themes, or themes that change every so often. For example, in your case, you had health obsessions for a period of time, and now your OCD has morphed to be more focused on HOCD. Your experience is extremely common, especially for those with the more obsessional (i.e., Pure O) types of OCD such as HOCD, Harm OCD, and health anxiety.
Doc one thing i know is that prior to hocd i never use get this sensations in my groin while seeing guys , but since hocd has striken me this sensations have started.Can you give insight on this.
Hi Nando,
The problem is not that you have sensations in your penis, but that you are over-attending to those sensations, and over-valuing them. Penises are designed to have sensations. I am confident that, prior to the onset of your HOCD, you didn’t spend much time focusing on your penis in an effort to discern if it was experiencing sensations. And you probably didn’t analyze penis sensations in an effort to discern what they meant. Simply put, your penis has been having sensations on a regular basis since you were born, but you just didn’t notice or analyze those sensations.
If you doubt the above, then I encourage you to try this simple experiment. Go into a quiet room, and focus all of your mental energy on your baby toe. Try as hard as you can to take note of every sensation your baby toe has – every itch, tingle, sensation of warmth or wetness or whatever. If you do this, you will quickly discover that you can notice all sorts of sensations that you previously had no idea were occurring. Your baby toe isn’t suddenly having new sensations – it has always had these sensations, but you never noticed before. You are only noticing them now because you are over-attending to them.
Penises, like little toes, do not deserve so much attention. Just let your penis exist without attending to its sensations, and without trying to figure out what those sensations mean.
Hello from Greece. I have these thoughts for about 2 years and I am seriously considering to act. I mean I will not kill a man, I will just kiss him etc. It is scary but the pursuit of women is scary too. Which one is real? I really am at the bottom right now. I cant enjoy flirt anymore. Maybe i should give it a try.
Antonis,
Thank you for your comment. There is no way for me to know “which one is real”, as I have never met you nor performed a formal assessment of you. I encourage you to seek counseling with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD. If online therapy with one of our therapists is an option for you, we can be contacted at (310) 824-5200 (ext.4). Take care.
Thank you for all of the help that you have given me through your blog. I am having so much trouble with transsexual OCD. I first developed harm OCD last December and sought help. ERP did not help and I ended up in a severe depression. The theme has changed frequently but for the past 6 months, I have had first gay and now the transsexual OCD. I have a few things in my past which are making this one seem so real. I once tried a dress on in the 7th grade but did not feel anything, I have gone to websites which deal with body swapping since the 7th grade and initially found them interesting. Now when I go I am bored with them but my mind tells me to go there and when I do, I end up depressed and my transsexual thought are worse. When I stay off of them, my thoughts are better. I have always liked women and when I am out with one, my thoughts decrease.My mind tells me that I am transsexual and I need to transition but I do not know what to think. I cannot even look at pictures of transsexuals. Do you think this is OCD or might I be in denial? How would you help me? I am so tired of trying to find the answer to this.
Thank you so much.
Sam,
There is no meaningful difference between gay obsessions and transsexual obsessions. In both cases, the individual is experiencing unwanted thoughts related to their sexuality. And while I cannot provide a diagnosis via a blog, everything you report indicates that these symptoms are likely to be OCD.
The evidence-based treatment for all variants of OCD is Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP). I do not know why ERP did not help you, but the most likely reason is that the therapist did not really understand how to provide ERP effectively. I say this because most therapists are utterly clueless about OCD, and even more have never even heard of ERP.
If we were to help you, ERP would be a large component of that treatment. We would also integrate the ERP with Mindfulness. If you are interested in treatment at our center, please call or email us through our website at https://ocdla.com/.
Doc yesterday i searched for nude female gif on Google and instead of a female there was a gay sex gif which had no effect on me but it had started my obsession again.For the past 1 month i was doing great but thanks to this gif my obsession has started again.What to do when such thoughts are surrounding you.
Hi,
i am 18 years old (first year at uni), when i was around 14 someone asked me if i was a lesbian and i remember getting really anxious and freaking out, after that i didnt stop thinking about it, and eventually broke down in tears to my mum; and i cant really remember what she said but she was okay with it, i did go to a therapist (not for this, but for other reasons) and i refused to talk to her about being gay because i was terrified she would tell me that i was. Eventually the thoughts of being gay just left me, i started to really like this boy, and for three years he was all i really thought about (i had liked boys previously to this, i remember my first crush at the age of 9-10 – it was a boy). anyway fast forward four years and i got my heart broken (i think, not sure if i was in love, but i have never been so hurt by someone before), and on top of that i was on youtube one day and randomly clicked on a coming out video (i dont have a problem with gay people, although i did when i was 14 – i wouldnt watch films with gays in it etc. although this went away when the thoughts about being gay stopped) and he started talking about how he knew he was gay, and my heart dropped and i started feeling anxious believing that this was what i had thought when i was 14, and maybe i am a lesbian and have been lying to myself since (i then remembered how when i was making out with my ex i asked myself once if i was really attracted to him). After this youtube video i felt sick, and since then (its been 3 months) i spend almost all day asking myself if i am gay, i didnt know about HOCD until i started typing into google ‘is it normal to questions one sexuality’ etc.
I still have moments of clarity where i believe i like boys and it makes me smile, but then i wonder if my mind is making me think i like boys when in fact i dont. Anyway – i know this writing isn’t very clear but i am having a mini panic attack while writing this, i havent spoken to anyone about this – although i do read a lot of forums and go on tumblr etc.
What i really want to know is if i am gay or am suffering from HOCD – i feel sick with worry thinking that you may say i am gay.
The reason i am speaking about this for the first time is because this morning i woke up and started thinking about this girl i hardly know, (two nights ago i dreamt about my ex, and the next day by anxiety wasnt as bad), but today its been horrendous, this girl is bi – i am not attracted to her, and she kissed a boy that i was thinking about kissing the other week, and now i cant stop thinking about her, and because of my anxiety i connected thinking about her as maybe liking her – which i really dont want to be the case. Maybe i am thinking this because i read on a forum where a girl knew she was a lesbian because she thought about a girl all the time and wanted to spend all her time with her. THis is not what i have been thinking!
Basically, i just want reassurance – i used to be so confident and always wanted boys to notice me and want me, now i feel like i have been living a lie and that i am someone who i am not. I feel like i have lost myself.
The reason i doubt if i have HOCD is because i dont get groinal responses, i get anxiety – like my fast flushes and i feel sick when i think about other girls who notice an attractive person – also i am consantly asking myself/wondering why i am not attracted to attractive boys i see on the street.
I also keep having the thought ‘maybe you always knew you were different’ – is that normal, oh gosh i am really scared.
Sorry for the Rant – but please reply i am really panicky.
Hi Paige,
I am not sure where you got the idea that all people with HOCD have a “groinal response”. That is a symptom for some people with HOCD, but certaunly not all.
Everything else you write suggests you are straight. Simply put, gay girls don’t crush on boys, don’t have three year relationships with boys, and don’t get their hearts broken by boys.
You note that you just want reassurance, and I more than likely played into that by writing the above sentence. But a far bigger problem is all of the self-reassurance you are doing. That will anly increase your anxiety in the long run.
You also have a giant cognitive distortion going on when you write “because of my anxiety i connected thinking about her as maybe liking her”. By that logic, you are sexually attracted to anyone (or any thing) you think about. In reality, you are entitled to have whatever thoughts happen to wander into you mind.
Finally, let me note that just because someone asked if you were gay doesn’t mean you are gay. There’s a great quote that I think is from AA which goes something like this: “What other people think of me is none of my business”. Keep that in mind the next time someone says anything about you that leads you to question your sexual orientation.
Doc there s an article by an hocd sufferer and he wrote that sensations in groin are signs of arousal.I always use to thought that erections are sign of arousal and not sensations
Nando – The semantic line between “sensation” and “arousal” and “erection” is a gray area. No good can come from trying to parse the difference between these terms, and I encourage you not to spend even one second trying to determine the difference between them.
Thankyou for your wonderful articles, the most insightful I have found. So nice to find someone who actually gets this stuff!
This all started for me about 7 months ago. But, now that I come to see things more clearly, I think I have had very obsessional tendencies for my whole life, pretty much. My son has aspergers and is very obsessional also, I wonder if I have traits. My psych thinks so. I had an eating disorder as a teen, and have always been very conscientious and hard on myself, so this seems to be a breeding ground for developing OCD!
I have been married for 16 years and we have a lovely family of 3 kids. When I was courting with my husband I started to have very obsessional, intrusive sexual thoughts about men and women. They have returned, mostly about women, for a few periods in my life which always made me feel deeply depressed and almost suicidal. It started again about women 7 months ago.
I have dealt with this in the past by “fixing” my mind on my husband. I did this by looking at photos, praying, or flooding my mind with images of him. I have felt, for our whole marriage, that I need to “carry” a sense of my love for him wherever I go, to counteract the lesbian images or tendencies, or whatever. I can now see that this is a compulsion and a ritual, which I have become hugely dependent on.
It is like without this sense of being “connected” to my love for him, I feel like I am betraying our relationship, my faith, my love for my family, and I feel like I am not being true to myself. I also feel deeply depressed and miserable being without that sense of “connection” to my love for him. I know that I just need to stick with it to rid myself of this need for certainty and this constant pressure I put on myself, and to learn what love really is, ie so much more than a feeling.
As I continue with this sense of giving up the ritual of mentally hooking into my love for hubby, I feel like I am falling without a parachute! It is truly terrifying and I am so scared I will lose this love. What if I do turn into a lesbian? What if deep down I am just a deeply selfish person who is not even capable of real love anyway?
PS I am 42 and have loved being married. But being without this ritual, it feels like it is discounting every good thing in my life, and every good thing I have ever done. I feel like a horrible betrayer and an adulteress being like this, but I can’t go back to rituals. Let’s hope this feeling passes before too long.
Thanks again for all your great work.
Hi V.,
Your comments highlight the connection between HOCD and what is known as Relationship OCD (ROCD). I encourage you to read our article on ROCD.
You say you feel like you are betraying your relationship, your faith, and your love for your family if you don’t experience the proper feeling state of connectedness to your husband. It seems to me that betrayal is a function of one’s actions, not their thoughts or feelings. To define yourself as an “adulteress” or a “betrayer” just for having intrusive, unwanted thoughts or feelings is being brutally and unrealistically hard on your self.
It is unreasonable to expect anyone to always have any particular feeling, as feelings are innately transient and out of our control. And as you note, your attempts to fix this feeling in your mind is a compulsion that you have been doing for your entire marriage, and this strategy hasn’t really been effective over the long-term. I encourage you to stay strong in not doing any rituals that are aimed at fostering any specific feeling towards your husband. In the short term, you will likely continue to feel like you are “falling without a parachute”, but over time you will be weakening OCD’s hold on you. Freedom lies in challenging your fear, not in capitulating to it.
Im spending less time on it now , but since i read an article i felt little confused.It doesn t feel like an actual arousal ,but these sensations are so annoying , i tell you that prior to hocd i never had them and even know when i see a female bang i get a erection with no sensations.I read people with hocd getting these sensations in other parts of body to.
Nando – It is counterproductive to analyze your thoughts, feelings, and sensations. Just because a sensation is annoying doesn’t mean it deserves analysis.
The thing that bothers me is the theory of the continuum, where we all fit in between homo and heterosexuality, and we go up and down on kinsey scale through life. it means that there is some part of me that is gay. im 18 and had hocd for 2 months and this theory just fueled it. i also read on wikipedia that bisexuals have more desire towards women that heterosexuals, and masturbate more, but have low rate of succesfull relationships, which described me. i feel my world collapsed, nothing makes sense anymore
Hi Filip,
First off, the Kinsey scale is a theory about an abstract, thoroughly subjective concept (a scale of one’s sexual orientation, going from really gay to really straight). It sounds like you have gotten way too caught up in the idea of this scale. I encourage you to stop analyzing where you fall on this scale.
Also, you should take anything you read on Wikipedia with a giant boulder of salt. I don’t know if bisexual men in general actually have more sexual interest in women than straight men do, but I doubt it. But I’m absolutely certain that bisexual men in general have more sexual interest in men than straight men do. And from what you write, you don’t seem particularly fond of the idea of sex with men, so it seems implausible that you would be bisexual.
Finally, if masturbating a lot and having a history of failed relationships with women is a sign of bisexuality, then just about every guy you or I have ever met could be described as bisexual!
Ok thanks. It is just hard to get used to the idea of perfect straight and gay people, rather than just straight and gay. I cannot imagine myself with a man, but i got hooked up on analyzing emotions with men to confirm they are unpleasant or non sexual. Then, from time to time, i get some feeling that i cannot explain and dont know if it is sexual. Once i said, just for checking “i need man” and i kinda disgusted myself, but when i repeated it for a few times, i didnt felt anything. Anyway, i dont really think i can become bisexual, im just affraid that ill become less straight(or more gay), and thats what makes me anxious. Wish i never saw that scale
Me again, sorry for bothering, i just need someone to talk to 😀 I always had weird obssesions, like becoming gay because i spend too much time with mom and sister. Or avoid buying groceries because it will stunt my growth. Hocd started when i saw some cool guy saying hello to everyone and then i was picturing some scenes just in case to make shure i dont have any gay side in me. It was hard, and i found nothing, but i couldnt get out of my head: “why did i found him cool(or attractive in some way)?” Then i was constantly imagining kissing all guys arround me for reassurance and questioning my actions in the past. I would think logically and calm down, but then some need always driven me to find reassurance again. I was thinking of gay relationship and try to imagine it very happy and with lots of smiles to see if i will feel something. i didnt, but i thought i figured out gay relationships and will soon become more and more gay. then i found about continuum theory and it scared me to death and i felt regret and guilty because i started it all and set it in motion. I went to therapist who told me she can’t tell me if i am bisexual and doesnt know if straight man can become one. Then i found about hocd and felt huge relief. Still it went on and on, and i was thinking of gay sex and penises and felt disgust, and said:”ok, i am 100% straight”, but then felt scared that i will develope perversion towards pennises. Later i thought that continuum only counts for bisexuals and that straights are just that, until few days ago when i read it all out. Now everything seems much more real, and i dont know what i am. Even when imagining gay relationships i feel something, at night i feel like im in love( with no one particular, i feel like i am going towards having gay fantasies and liking them, like i created some gayness and non ERP will make me make my peace with it. I was happy when i watched movie “Kinsey” and felt repulsed when to guys started flerting and making out, but then i saw sam men in bed and i felt some attraction. I looked it again to see if it was something less and i couldnt decide. I’m thinking if i get to like these thoughts, they will become the part of my routine, because i feel there is something(more then before) and i will have gay fantasies. I never had single one before and dont want them now either. I feel like this is no longer hocd, it is real problem. All that talk about sexual fluidity and conversions in forums make me sick. I feel now is different than before. Like my problem isnt hocd anymore, its accepting my gay side, which i never knew it was there.
Filip,
You are spending waaaaaay too much time thinking about your sexual orientation and analyzing how you think about it. This is a hallmark of HOCD. The only people who spend a significant amount of time trying to figure out if their thoughts mean that they are gay are people with HOCD. Guess how much time people who don’t have HOCD spend analyzing their thoughts in an attempt to discern their sexual orientation?
None. Not one second.
And BTW, people don’t “convert” to being gay.
Thanks. I started with classic ocd, gay thoughts scared me very much. Then i read that gay people enjoy their thoughts and try to enjoy them to make sure i dont. I wouldnt like gay sex. I wouldnt like to be held by a man. Well, I was pretty sure before that i wouldnt, imagining it would make me feel..well gay and wrong, but now i dont know. I guess I am just not scared by the thoughts anymore and i got used to them. I am sure as hell i dont want to be in a gay relationship. But the fact that i can find a man attractive and sometimes get attracted in non-sexual way make me a bit gayer than 0 on scale is depressing, and hard to get used to. Not discerning my orientation to me means that i am on the edge of being bisexual. 😀 Anyway, is homeopathy doing any good for my problem? Or ACT therapy?
Filip,
I must emphasize again that you are spending way too much time analyzing your thoughts and feelings. This analysis is a compulsion, and will not get you anywhere except deeper into OCD.
You say “I sure as hell don’t want to be in a gay relationship”. That sounds pretty straight to me.
You also note that you have not been able to “discern” your orientation, and fear that this means you are “on the edge of being bisexual”. But not discerning your orientation has absolutely nothing to do with being bisexual. Humans do not need to evaluate or classify or figure out or discern their sexual orientation. I have not spent one second of my life trying to figure out my sexual orientation, and nor should you.
Finally, allow me to note that the only treatments that have consistently been found to be effective for OCD are CBT and certain medications. ACT is essentially a type of CBT (what is sometimes called “third wave CBT). We integrate ACT into our CBT program, and it has been very helpful for many of our OCD clients. On the other hand, homeopathy is an utter waste of time and money.
Hi,
My husband, who is suffering from hocd as far as I can see, is getting angry because I don’t believe he might be gay.
When we embrace, he gets aroused instantly and although he attended a coming-out workshop at a gay/lesbian centre, he says that he was never in love with a real man actually. He joined the workshop to know how, when it’s going to happen one day in the future. This seems absurd to me.
He thinks, I’m in denial of his homosexuality and I think he is suffering from several types of hocd. His thoughts seem completely real to him, so naturally I can’t convince him that they are part of a depression (that’s the diagnosis he got from his therapist) and will go away with appropriate professional treatment. Being possibly gay seems like a duty to him, which he has to fulfill.
Do you think I should go on insisting on my point of view (we quarrel about all this every two or three weeks) or is it getting worse by that? He insinuates, my stubborness is making him more depressive. My husband is taking serotonin reuptake inhibitors for a few months and is seeing a therapist once to twice a month.
I’d be very glad, if you give some advice to me and perhaps there are more partners of hocd sufferers out there, waiting for it.
Thank you.
P.S. I was so relieved, when I found your text on hocd and it’s subtypes in the first place. Before that, there was only my distinct feeling, that my husband did not turn gay all in a sudden after a panic attack overnight.
Sina,
Thank you for your comments. I’m glad to hear that you found our articles helpful.
While I cannot provide a diagnosis of your husband, I can say that the symptoms you describe sound very much like HOCD. People do not suddenly “turn gay”, and gay men do not generally like the idea of sexually embracing women. In fact, they are generally repulsed by the very idea of sex with women.
That said, I don’t believe arguing with him about it is going to help the situation. I suggest he seek Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) with an OCD specialist. Most therapists know virtually nothing about HOCD, and the fact that his therapist made a diagnosis of depression suggests that the therapist may not really understand HOCD.
Doc yesterday had a dream of me sucking a guys dick and ended waking up feeling to vomit it was so bad and terrifying.Now even in dreams hocd irritating me .The thoughts of sucking dick disgust me.
Nando,
You had a dream of having a gay sexual encounter. That is entirely different from being gay. I assume that if you had a dream of flying that you would not come to the conclusion that you are able to fly. The bottom line is that we dream all sorts of irrational, unbelievable stuff, none of which needs to be taken seriously.
Doc i got tingling sensation while watching a lion lick a deer carcass while watching discovery i m a gone crazy.
Nando,
Whenever you analyze your thoughts, emotions, urges, physical sensations, dreams, etc., in an attempt to figure out what they mean about your sexual orientation, you are doing a compulsion. People have sensations for all sorts of reasons, and I encourage you not to analyze your sensations or try to figure out what they mean in any way.
Doc i read that sensations are a common theme for ocd sufferers in general,so could it be applied to hocd as well.I read dr philpson article and he mentions that sensations are tricks played by mind and are not be confused with arousal.A really good article, like yours.
Nando – Yes, as I noted in my reply to your previous comment, unwanted sensations are quite common in HOCD. And just like the unwanted thoughts and feelings, the best approach is to accept that they exist, and to make no attempt to figure them out or control them. Just let them exist and get on with your day.
Lately I got used to my thoughts, but i got in to this terrible state of feeling empty. I no longer have any feelings, no motivation to push me. I am just moaning for my old life when i knew who i was and had some vison of future, plans and had some perspective. I want to know if this is common for ocd. All i know is I´m not the old me, when i say things like: “I want him”, I don’t get that ugly feeling, instead I feel that there is some emotion to it. Gay images sometimes gisgust me, sometimes don’t. I guess HOCD lost it’s fuel because i lost sense of myself. I can’t believe this is happening to me, I feel detached from myself, from the person I was.
Filip,
It sounds like you may be depressed, which is not an uncommon response to OCD – after all it is depressing to be anxious all the time about anything. I encourage you to seek out Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) with an OCD specialist. Take care.
Hi, thankyou for the post, it’s really good. I’m posting as I’m so so panicky right now and can’t see a way out.
I consider myself to be a straight girl and have always had relationships with men. I have a beautiful daughter and an amazing partner who I’m sure that I love with every bit of me. We’ve had a three year relationship, never argued and click so well. In my clear moments I could never imagine being with a woman, I’ve tried running scenarios through my head but can’t picture myself involved. If I force the thought I just feel guilt and disgust. I want to feel better, I don’t want these thoughts.
Hi Amy,
You wrote the following:
~ “I consider myself to be a straight girl”
~ “I have a beautiful daughter and an amazing partner who I’m sure that I love with every bit of me”
~ “I could never imagine being with a woman”
~ “I just feel guilt and disgust” when you think of being with a woman
That’s a pretty compelling argument that you are straight. I encourage you to accept that you are a straight girl who happens to have unwanted thoughts about being gay, which just so happens to be a perfect description of HOCD. You don’t need to eliminate the thoughts – you need to accept that they exist, and pay them no attention.
Hello,
I believed, or hoped that I was suffering from HOCD. I am so anxiety ridden and lost at the moment that I don’t know what to believe. I am currently pregnant and unable to take medication. I have obsessed about my sexuality from a very young age although my background boasts that I was a boy crazy heterosexual girl since as far back as I can remember. I have gone over the gammit of related triggers with this form of ocd. I have obsessed about being a tomboy, I have obsessed about finger ratios, I have obsessed about the current relationships I was in etc. All of these things have seemed huge at the time until my focus shifts onto another facet of the obsession. Currently I am thoroughly convinced that I must be a lesbian because of sexual arousals I have been experiencing in association with the thoughts. I was fine for a while assuming that they were just groinal responses but I have a hard time believing that they are now. They seem a lot stronger and accompanying them is this thought like I have to act on them, that i.e this is so hot that I won’t be able to take it and the arousal will never go away until I do. Embarrasingly I have masterbated to these thoughts, compulsively to either straight or gay things to test if they were real arousals. It feels almost like a self destructive twisted urge to ruin my life. No matter how much I masterbate the groinal responses won’t go away, they just feel stronger and stronger. I felt the need to test this especially because I keep having dreams about doing lesbian things, and enjoying them. I would initially wakeup and think it was ridiculous, but there is this pulling thought in the dream that this is something so stimulating you have to act on it. That I can’t run away from it anymore and I have to wear the arousal like a dunce cap of shame on my head. It feels corrupt and very shameful. Meanwhile, I have enjoyed sex with men and have felt attractions to them in the past. The lesbian stuff on the other hand feels so much stronger and intrusive. I read that it is okay to have same sex fantasies and to be aroused by same sex thoughts. Therapists tout to enjoy them more if you enjoy them. I didn’t enjoy these things in the beginning, I tried to force myself to. Now I get these thoughts and urges that I enjoy them, and I have to enjoy them or else all hell will break loose. I would prefer that they didn’t exist period. But thanks to all the experiences of checking and watching gay porn, I get these gay images now and probably what is accompanied by geniune sexual arousal which is horrible and humiliating. Then the urge to have to masterbate to make it go away or punish myself. At this point I don’t feel like I deserve to be straight anymore which is terrifying because I love my husband and want to be with him, all along with a baby on the way.
I also don’t feel this instantaneous groinal responses with men, which seems to strengthen the case for being a lesbian. I have felt these responses over people I definitely didn’t want to have sex with though. Usually I remedied the feeling by forcing myself to really think about doing those sexual things until the prospect no longer felt taboo or intrusive. This would relieve anxiety until a new thought would pop into my head again out of no where accompanied with a stronger arousal. The cycle will just continue. This especially happens before I fall asleep at night and in dreams. The thoughts seem hotter and less egodystonic until I actually become aware of what I’m thinking about, which makes me think of latent homosexuality. I am rambling and am probably not making sense. I am just so lost and if it weren’t for my baby I’d rather just disappear. Should I even being doing therapy? Thank you for your time.
Scared,
Thank you for your comments.
Everything in your post screams HOCD. Allow me to note the following:
Analyzing things like your experience as a tomboy, finger ratios, groinal responses, and the nature of arousal is a compulsion. Doing compulsions only makes OCD worse.
Testing yourself with masturbation is also a compulsion, and will only make your OCD worse.
Sexual arousal, regardless of the trigger, needn’t be “horrible” or “humiliating” – it is just arousal, nothing more, nothing less.
You are spending an enormous amount of your time and energy on something that warrants neither. You don’t need to figure out anything about your sexual orientation. Can you provide me with one single reason why your sexual orientation must be clarified?
The issue is not your sexual orientation – the issue is that you are obsessing about your sexual orientation, and doing compulsions in an effort find some absolute certainty about something that doesn’t require certainty. A far better approach would be to accept that, as a human, you have an interest in sexuality, and to then do absolutely nothing to figure out or analyze or resolve anything about your sexuality. Simply put, you don’t need to pin down if you are gay or straight, any more than you need to pin down if you prefer chicken or beef. I encourage you to read our article on Mindfulness Based CBT for OCD.
Life is full of ambiguity and uncertainty…and that’s OK.
Thank you so much for your response!
I especially appreciate your asking why I need to clarify my sexuality. I suppose it is a combination of hyper responsibility, feeling like I don’t deserve the nice things that I have and a regular dread that my life is set up for failure. I’ve had a lot of things go wrong in my life, (not to turn this into a pity party) and now I naturally expect things to go wrong.
I think I have a hard time with sexual arousal period because I was also molested by an older man when I was 14. I remember being aroused at the time and told myself that I must be enjoying what was happening. Any hint of unwanted arousal, real or imagined, terrifies me.
Lastly, I just don’t enjoy these thoughts! I want them to go away and it looks like I have to not fall for these compulsions no matter what. It’s hard to sit there and feel like I am aroused by something unwanted and not do anything about it, and honestly I haven’t had the courage yet to not do a compulsion. Thank you so much for clarifying on what I have to do. I am so grateful for the time you put in to helping myself and everyone else on your blogs.
Scared,
Actually I didn’t ask why you need to clarify your sexuality – I asked you for evidence as to why you need to clarify it. Feeling hyper-responsible, and feeling like you don’t deserve nice things, and feeling dread about your life possibly being a failure all have one thing in common – they are all feelings. But feelings are net evidence of fact. Just because you have these feelings doesn’t mean you need to clarify your sexual orientation. In fact, I suspect there are millions of people with similar feelings who don’t spend one second of their lives trying to clarify their sexual orientation.
Please know that I acknowledge and appreciate the suffering you have experienced. That said, I do not believe you need to clarify anything about your sexuality. Nobody needs to clarify their sexual orientation, and attempting to do so is not only unnecessary, but a waste of your valuable time and energy.
Hi , first of all I think that you article is excelent.
I am 20 years old and i’m a female, im in a relationship with a guy that i love very much for almost 5 years.
I think i always had problems with OCD but never went to teraphy, I had a really bad time obesessing about diseases and that i was going to die, always searching in google for syntoms and thank god that is over. I also had obsessions about other things that take a while to disapear.
Now, i think i’m suffering for HOCD. I was in college a month ago studying with my friends , and one of my friends said something and I thought “Maybe she’s a lesbian” and then I don’t know why I started thinking “what if i am?” “omg could I be”?
Started freaking out, was break time from college, I was at home didn’t watch TV, didn’t go out, then when I saw a girl i keep thinking do i feel atracted to her ? And it is really horrible , then i would try to imagine how would it be kissing a girl and i thought that i wouldn’t like it all. I kept searching on the web and then I decided that it has to stop , so i started to go out with my friends and at first i was really ansious and was always checking but then i relaxed and started to get better.
Now , i started freaking out again because college is going to start again and the face of my friend that I thought that was a lesbian keeps popping in my head saying “you’re a lesbian” when i Know i’m not , it’s horrible , it’s almost like i’m beggining to be scared of her. I talked to my mother and my boyfriend about the subject and they’re being really supportive since I’ve already been through something like this with the diseases. But it’s really scary seems like you have a battle in your brain, it’s like i know i’m not a lesbian and i’m not atracted to women but the toughts keep coming to my mind. I would really like to know your opinion about this
Hi Andrea – thanks for commenting.
You had a random thought about someone else potentially being gay, and now you are worrying that you are gay. But there is no legitimate connection between a thought about someone else’s sexual orientation and your sexual orientation. The only connection is OCD.
The fact that you have a boyfriend (hint: lesbians don’t have boyfriends), that you don’t like the idea of kissing girls (hint: lesbians love the idea of kissing girls), and have a history of having OCD, strongly suggests that you have OCD. I encourage you to accept the existence of the thoughts. We all think all sorts of things, many of which are not based in fact. Accept the presence of these unwanted thoughts in your head, and do nothing about them – don’t check, don’t analyze, don’t do anything except to live your life exactly as you would if you had never had these thoughts.
I encourage you to read our article on Mindfulness and CBT for OCD and Anxiety.
I use to associate everything that happens to others to me I dont know why, and I get obsessed with a lot of thoughts that I have, I never knew that was OCD until I researched recently.
So I need to accept the thoughts even if they cause me great anxiety? Will they eventually go away ? Also, is it normal for me to start being afraid of my friend?
Thank you very much for you reply , I already talked about this with my mother and my boyfriend and they’re being really supportive since I already had this problem with other things
p.s. sorry if my english isn’t the best is not my native language
Andrea – Yes, the best long-term strategy is to accept the unwanted thoughts. That doesn’t mean accepting they are true. It just means accepting they exist. Life is full of unpleasant things that we can either accept or resist. The best approach is to accept reality as it is, and in this case the reality is that you have these thoughts.
I’m sorry to bother you again
So I stopped with the checking around girls and it’s seems that I finally realised that I’m not a lesbian
I stopped with the thoughts but know the face of my friend keeps popping into my head like constantly it’s horrible, like torture, and then i started thinking “does this mean that i’m like in love with her? but i’m not even atracted to her and I don’t want a romantic thing with her at all, and also I still love my boyfriend”, it seems that when I’m distracted she goes away but she always comes back, it causes me great anxiety and gives me a headache. Do you think that is the OCD?
Andrea – Yes, the unwanted images sound like OCD. These images that are popping into your mind are no different than the thoughts that were previously popping into your mind. Your goal is to accept these images rather than resisting them or fighting them or trying to get rid of them. All sorts of images come into our minds every day, and their existence does not automatically mean that they are significant.
Thank you so much for the reply
My anxiety has decreased a lot and the face of my friend disapeared which is a relief, but I remembered that when I was a little younger I had something like this, when I was about 12-14, I can’t remember the exact age, one day I don’t remeber why the thought “can I be a lesbian” popped into my mind, and I was really worried about that for a while, but then one day I just stopped thinking about it and I came back to normal , and crazy about boys again. But now that’s worrying me because I keep thinking ” could I be in denial since that time”
And the worst thing about this is that now is making me doubt about my love for my boyfriend , I know I love him but my mind keeps telling me ” you don’t love him he deserves someone better” but I don’t want to be without him, and this is all really crazy
But I can say that I’m not anxious like I was before I started to accept the thoughts , but now this thing about my boyfriend is really not helping
Is it possible to have HOCD more than once in life? And is it possible that the OCD is making me doubt about my relationship ?
And once more , I’m really sorry to bother you
Hi Andrea,
OCD is a chronic condition that tends to wax and wane over time. Your recent thoughts are not evidence of having HOCD for a second time, but rather of having a spike in your symptoms. This is nothing unusual, and I encourage you to frame it in mind as nothing unusual. We all have all sorts of odd thoughts that pop into our minds, and the best response is to not take these thoughts so seriously.
Also, it is quite common for people with HOCD to have thoughts in which they question their relationships. This variant of OCD is colloquially known as Relationship OCD (ROCD), and like HOCD, the best approach to treatment for ROCD is CBT.
Hi Dr , I’m really,really sorry for posting so much and for bothering you, but I feel like I always need answers.
Now when I have the thoughts I just let them be and don’t do nothing about them , and I experience less or almost none anxiety, but the thing is the thoughts are still there and everytime I look at a girl it feels like attraction and when I look at a guy feels like I have less attraction it’s really weird. Also I still worry that I had this when I was younger , and after that time sometimes when I saw or heard something that reminded me of that time I would get nervous that I would start to obsess with that again, so I worry that I was like repressing feelings or like in denial.
I feel like I will never be the same again, this is so hard for me because I was always so crazy about guys since ever, I love the way they make me feel, when they smile , when they look at me , and I miss that
Another thing is that I read that when people have hocd they lose their sexual drive, but I still get aroused with my boyfriend and I enjoy having sex with him, sometimes I get nervous at first because of the gay thoughts but I still enjoyed it, does that mean I don’t have HOCD? I’m so confused
I feel a lot better, am able to smile now and being around my boyfriend without feeling guilt for having these thoughts , but at the same time I just want clarity in my head and I can’t get it because the thoughts don’t leave my head, feels like a trap.
I looked for therapy, and where I’m from they don’t mention treatment for this type of OCD, they just mention the washing and checking types, and it’s really really expensive, and I’m affraid that I will get worse.
Hi Andrea,
Thank you for your comment.
I’m glad that you have been able to reduce your compulsions. That said, it is worth noting that reducing compulsions doesn’t guarantee a reduction in obsessions. The simple truth is that the human brain is very creative, and one of its main jobs is to think thoughts. And for those with OCD, their thoughts are going to be more obsessional than those without OCD. Your goal is not to reach a state in which you have no obsessions, but rather to develop your ability to accept the existence of these unwanted thoughts without getting so upset by them.
As for the impact of OCD on sex drive, it is important to note that everyone is different. Just because others report a reduction in sex drive doesn’t mean you will have that response. And as long as we are talking about sex drive, it is also worth noting that you report that you still get aroused by, and enjoy sex with, your boyfriend. Lesbians do not enjoy sex with men, and the fact that you do is a far greater indicator of your sexual orientation than some unwanted thoughts that you have.
Finally, you note that you want “clarity” and that you “always need answers”. This discomfort with uncertainty is a key aspect of OCD. But achieving a sense of certainty about your sexual orientation is unlikely to occur, and further seeking certainty will only make your OCD worse. As an alternative, I encourage you to try accepting the existence of your unwanted thoughts. That doesn’t mean accepting they are true – it just means accepting they exist and doing nothing about their existence. Let the thoughts be.
Hi, I’ve read your article and allot of what you say makes complete sense to me. I feel I’m currently in a loop and have been for the last 6 months since I turned 30. I’m in a relationship with a woman at the moment which I care very much for. My concern is thinking of my future with her, I very much see her as someone I want to spend the rest of my life with but this creates all sorts of questions…if I am internalised homosexual and we marry and have children what the affect will be then, I’ll not just be ruining my life and hers but bringing children into the situation makes it so much more complicated. I want to be sure that it is HOCD and not internalised homosexuality. Where do I begin to look to seek out my answers? I very much obsess about this way of thinking and check myself constantly, I don’t live in the moment as a result but when I do I’m released. I have had engagments with men to test things out, it didn’t do anything for me but this could be anxiety, I’ve had many engagements with woman which I’ve enjoyed but ultimately I feel like I’m missing something. it’s all so confusing and its affecting my work and will possibly affect my relationship. I just need to be pointed in the right direction. Can you help?
Hi Graham,
Thank you for your comment.
You are engaged to a woman with whom you want to spend the rest of your life. How many gay man do you think would say that?
I don’t know where you got these ideas of being an “internalized homosexual”, and everything you write sounds like textbook HOCD. You enjoy being with women, and have even gone so far as to test your sexual orientation by experimenting with men, which predictably didn’t provide you with the sense of certainty you were seeking.
The direction I would provide you is simple – find a therapist who specializes in treating HOCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). If you would like to discuss treatment options at our center, please call our client coordinators at (310) 824-5200 (ext. 4). Take care.
Hi,
So my first encounter with this disorder was in grade 12 where out of nowhere after never even considering it once I asked myself, What if im Gay?. This caused me lots of stress and I would have many mental obsession and compulsions. However, after a few weeks I told myself, hey you like both genders if anything. This was my mindset, not just a phrase and a week later I never questioned my sexuality again. Three years later i would look back and laugh, wow you really thought you were gay, that’s funny. But a month ago out of nowhere it hit me again. I would play mind games with myself that are never ending. I know how stupid I sound and i know i’m not gay, but I tell myself what if you were in denial the whole time. My anxiety decreased after a few weeks and I would say, does this mean you are accepting the fact. There are many other things I do but that will take hours to write. My question in the end is can the thoughts turn me gay, that’s my deepest fear. If i keep asking myself these things will I become gay one day? Am i bound to lose control and do something I will terribly regret? I took your test on your website when I was at the peek of my condition and I checked almost every single box which put me at an almost certain case of having this disorder. My last fear is what if HOCD doesn’t exist, and i’m just suppressing my homosexuality?
Thank you very much for your time. I just hope I lived in LA to meet with you guys personally.
Hi Jamie,
Thanks for commenting.
First off, your thoughts will not turn you gay. The problem here is that you are over-analyzing mundane thoughts that don’t warrant so much as a minute of your time. If you suddenly had a thought “what if I am a tree, not a person”, would you analyze that thought? Of course not – you would just write it off as a silly example of your mind’s creativity. All of us have all sorts of weird, unexpected thoughts, and these thoughts do not deserve your time and energy.
The fear that HOCD doesn’t exist is common among people with HOCD, and is in fact nothing more than another HOCD obsession (i.e., “OMG, what if HOCD doesn’t really exist and all of this over-thinking is really just me being in denial that I am gay!!!!”). If you are repeatedly asking your self “what if…” questions about your sexual orientation and about HOCD, then you almost certainly have HOCD. And if you checked off most of the items on our free confidential HOCD test, then it’s a pretty good bet that you have HOCD.
So I’m not sure what to do – I have heard about HOCD before, but recently have been having questions about my sexuality and doubts as well. I am almost 27 and have had sex with women before, but have never dated or had a strong relationship. It was enjoyable and I did want to have more of it, but I never felt compelled to go after it like some friends of mine. It’s been 4 years now since the last time I slept with a girl, is it weird that I don’t have a stronger drive to go out and try to have sex more often?
I’ve never felt like I’ve been in love either, although I have had crushes on girls. I seem to find out that whenever this happens though, the girls are unavailable (engaged or in relationships). I have sexual fantasies about them, but now I feel like don’t know if they’re legitimate or if it’s something I’m doing subconsciously to try and convince myself I like girls. I also don’t date – part of me feels like it’s because I’m too old to know what to do and don’t want to be embarrassed, but then I read that sometimes gay people will not date so that they won’t have to acknowledge they’re gay if they don’t like women, or will put it off because they don’t want to date men.
Today though I was speaking to a friend and got a strong urge to kiss him, as in the thought popped in my head, I thought “Wait, do I want to kiss this guy right now? Yeah, I feel like I do, if we weren’t in public I probably would have. Why am I having that thought?”. I just let that one pass, but as you might guess from me writing this, it psyched me out quite a bit. I just felt a very strong physical urge to just get up out of my seat and plant one on the guy, and then I got this sinking feeling in my stomach and felt kind of flushed, like when you were a kid and somebody embarrassed you in front of a lot of other people. I tried seeing if sexual fantasies about the guy got me excited, but they haven’t. I just feel strange and kind of upset by the whole ordeal. I don’t know why I felt that way, but it really bothered me.
I’ve played sports before and been in locker room showers, have seen other naked guys, and thought absolutely nothing of it other than “wow, so and so is ripped, wish I had a six pack like that”. I feel like I can at least say that while I didn’t feel attracted to them, they are some very good looking individuals. I’d think that if I was gay, I’d at least be a little attracted to them.
I am trying to just let this thought go, but I know I’m going to be thinking about this tomorrow when I see that person as well, and I feel like from now on it’s just going to be a cycle of me checking all the time to see what happens when that person is around. I’m not otherwise attracted to men, at least I haven’t felt that way before, but this has me wondering if I just somehow discovered I was gay or if I’m just chasing my tail on this. What kind of therapist do you talk to about something like this?
Hi Andrei,
Thanks for commenting.
Just because you don’t have a strong sex drive and don’t date does not mean you are gay. It means you don’t have a strong sex drive and you are not comfortable dating (which you acknowledge). You have enjoyed sex with women, so it is a pretty good bet that you are straight. Conversely, you appear to not like the unwanted gay thoughts you have had. That sounds like HOCD.
It sounds like you are looking to connect with a therapist, and I want to encourage you to seek treatment only with one who specializes in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). This is the treatment that has consistently been found by researchers to be the most effectove method of treating OCD. If treatment at our center is an option for you, we can be reached via our website at https://ocdla.com/.
Hi Dr, thanks again for the reply , I was doing fine , I thought I did , I don’t feel anxiety anymore only sometimes and I don’t feel that urge to check like I used to. The problem is my attraction to men still haven’t returned and that is really starting to freak me out. Since I thought I was getting better I decided to try facing the fear so I went and read coming ou stories , and it wasn’t such a good idea,in most of the stories they found ou at a really young age like 5 or 6 but there were some stories there that freak me out and I had a panic attack, specially this one it was a guy who was straight all along and at 18 started to question his sexuality and even had a girlfriend, he said that he was trying to convice himself that he was straight and then he found out that he was bisexual and broke up with his girlfriend and that he was suffering from a sexual identity crisis. That really bothered me , how do I know that I’m not suffering from a sexual identity crisis? What’s the difference between that and HOCD?
And now I’m starting to feel like I don’t love me boyfriend anymore it’s a horrible feeling.
Also I thought that if ther anxiety decreased my attraction for men woul return and it hasn’t is it normal?
Hi Andrea,
You say you are having a problem with a lack of interest in men, yet you have a boyfriend. Perhaps there are other issues in the relationship that are impacting your sexual interest in him. Or perhaps you are experiencing some depression that is lessening your sexual appetite. Also, keep in mind that sexual interest in a specific partner varies over time – many (most?) people are more sexually interested in the beginning of a relationship than after an extended period of time.
When one does an exposure (such as reading “coming out” stories) one of the goals of the exposure is to purposely make you uncomfortable so that you can learn over time that you are able to tolerate the discomfort. I encourage you to read our article on exposure therapy to get a better idea of what to expect when doing these exposures.
I encourage you to seek out Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) with an OCD specialist to help you challenge the OCD and to help you sort through whatever issues exist in your relationship with your boyfriend.
Hello! I’m going through OCD (or at least that’s what my psychologist and psychiatrist said but I even doubt about my diagnosis) I’m 26 years old and I had my first sexual obsession at the age of 13. I was watching a tv program and there were these two girls that said they were lesbians and I started wondering if I was a lesbian myself. At home, the sex issue was and keeps being tabboo. So whenever I saw a nude girl I felt like a sort of groinal response or something like that, or whenever I watched a sex scene on tv (very quickly because my parents would change the channel) I would focus more on the girl than the boy and all those things made me doubt a lot. All those factors made me really believe that I was a lesbian. I felt really upset, I didn’t eat, I didn’t sleep, I thought my life was useless there was nothing to live for. I spent a year or so like that until I had my first boyfriend and my concerns seemed to have vanished. I’m in a relationship now. I really love my boyfriend, but I realized I have no sex drive (this has always happened to me)and I started trying to find answers… why is it that I’m not aroused by my boyfriend? He is really attractive and I really want to be with him. So I thought maybe I didn’t love him so much… I got obsessed with that idea. I suffered a lot… how much do I love him? How do I know it’s love? What if I’m not in love? And after that…. I reconsidered the idea of being a lesbian. Maybe I’m a lesbian and I don’t know it… maybe I deny it and that’s why I don’t feel sexual attraction for men. I am really depressed, I ended up in an endless chain of doubts. I can’t see a girl because if I think she’s pretty I feel a pressure in my chest and in my stomach… I think all the time, I can’t enjoy anything with my boyfriend. I cry a lot. I’m really scared of what may happen. It’s as if there was something inside me that I don’t know… and it’s about to come out at any second. I really don’t want to be gay! I don’t have anything against them,it’s just that it goes against my wishes: my future with my boyfriend, I really want to build a future for us! And now I feel it’s all coming down to pieces. I don’t know what to do I can’t stop it my life is being destroyed by thoughts…
Hi Beatrice,
Actually, I’d like to suggest a small change in your phrasing…
You note that “my life is being destroyed by thoughts”. I think a more accurate way of viewing this would be that you life is being impacted by your reaction to your thoughts. The problem is not the thoughts – it is your taking the thoughts so seriously. They are just useless bits of nonsense that your brain has created, but you are valuing them as if they are somehow important. If you looked at the sky and thought “the sky is paisley”, you would most likely think “what a silly thought”. That’s what you need to do here. They are just silly, unimportant thoughts. People without OCD spend virtually no time whatsoever analyzing and questing their thoughts about sexual orientation. In other words, the issue is not your orientation – the issue is your OCD.
Thanks for the reply. I understand what you say. The thing is that thinking I may be gay cannot be compared to a thought such as “the sky is paisley”. The possibility of being gay represents a threat to my identity and knowing who I really am and the doubts lead to great confusion and distress. I know that thoughts are just thoughts… but when the thought is about a topic which involves my own identity I just wonder if there might be some meaning or reason why I’m thinking about that. I may be in denial or it could be related to a repression mechanism. I also know that uncertainty fuels the fire of OCD, but why does everybody else know for sure what they are (straight/gay) and I have to cope with the uncertainty of my identity? I hope you can get my point. Thanks in advance for your help.
Hi Beatrice,
I do get your point – I just disagree with it.
I think that your thoughts about your sexual orientation are exactly as unimportant as the thought “the sky is paisley”. Both thoughts are completely unimportant thoughts that brains manufacture. The only difference is that you are currently capable of recognizing that the paisley sky thought is unimportant, but you are attributing great meaning and importance to the sexual orientation thought. The thought is not a threat to your identity – it is just a thought that you are grossly over-valuing.
Also, you note that “everybody else knows for sure” whether they are straight or gay. Again, I disagree. I do not “know” if I am straight or gay. I am 56 years old and have never been with a man, so my experience suggests that I am “straight”. But for all I know, I will wake up tomorrow and decide to have sex with a man. Based on what you have written, I suspect you have a similarly heterosexual history, and yet you are obsessing about a thought that completely contradicts that history. The only difference between my thought about being gay and yours is that you take your thought seriously, while I don’t even remotely care about my thought. In other words, it is your interpretation that the thought is important that is causing you problems.
Finally, allow me to note one more thing – uncertainty does not “fuel the fires of OCD” – it is the fire of OCD. Uncertainty cannot be avoided – again, I don’t know with any “certainty” that I won’t wake up tomorrow desiring sex with men. I have no certainty about this, only conjecture based on experience. But if I were to demand certainty, I would be setting myself up for great misery. Accept the innate uncertainty about your sexual orientation and it will cease to be worrisome.
We’ll I’ve had different forms of OCD to harm ocd, health related ocd, pedophila ocd, there’s others but I don’t really want to get into them. I’ve had HOCD since June 2013. I know that it all started when I was watching a show on MTV called Guy Code. I was looking at the tv and I said to myself “I wonder watch HOCD IS? And I know it’s better than what I’m going thru now.” Than that night I had a gay dream and I kid u not, I woke up with so much anxiety, and I woke up gasping for air. It was horrible. And ever since then I suffered from HOCD, but I thought things were getting better but they weren’t. I started to get groinial response and I lock myself in my room and cry all day, for hours. I try to avoid things that will cause me to freak out. Like the show Glee which has a lot of gay ppl in it but I loooove glee and I hate that I can’t watch it bc it will trigger me, I avoid women, rainbows, rainbow flags, cutting my hair short, acting in a gay way etc. but sometimes that dosent work bc if I look at any female picture I get a groinial response and that just makes everything worse and makes me believe that I’m hiding my true self and I’m really gay but I hate it! I’m not homophobic I love gay ppl it’s just that that’s not who I am. I try to tell myself that but then there’s something in my head saying “you’re gay, stop trying to say ur not.” I love men I’ve always loved men. I never found any women attractive at all. Whenever there’s images of gay things come to my mind I cringe bc I don’t like them. There’s more but I don’t want to bore u. But great article!
Hi Jeri,
All of the avoidant behaviors you are doing are compulsions that will only make things worse. As an alternative, I encourage you to do the opposite. Watch Glee, look at women, get a rainbow flag and hang it on your bedroom wall. If you run from the OCD by avoiding things, you will be running forever.
Hello Tom, thankyou for responding to my posting on 25/12.
I stuck with ERP, it really does work wonders! I wanted to say that I found a type of freedom that I have never had before, where I wasn’t worrying or controlling every thought, and it was wonderful. I felt NORMAL and it was great. Thankyou!
I have had a relapse, but not as bad as before. Last time I ended up in hospital, things were pretty bad. At the moment I am very anxious and caught up in thoughts again related to my sexuality and my marriage, but I am still able to function, albeit a bit robotically and not really feeling authentic or in the moment when with my family.
Part of my ERP homework last time was to record a “worst case scenario” onto my phone and listen to it. I stopped because I began to improve and felt that I didn’t need to anymore, but I have recommenced this over the last couple of days since feeling an increase in anxiety and obsessiveness. It is extremely painful to listen to it, but I have to stick to it, I know.
My current obsession is that perhaps last time I improved because I was still deep down controlling and supressing my “big gay secret self”(sounds so dumb), but just doing it a bit less. This time, I am telling myself, I have to REALLY let go, and I feel gay and feel like I am enjoying the fantasy!
I need to stress that it is not so much a gay sex fantasy per se, but more like a “sexual energy” or uncertainty, that I COULD be gay (feel like puking with fear as I write).
Like before I felt I needed my mind permanently welded to hubby, now it is like it feels all over the place.
Then feeling like I am hurting my husband’s heart by even contemplating this awful thing…how could I even let it cross my mind….and the beat goes on….blah blah blah..so over this right now…yada yada yada.
Yesterday I had to go into the City, and I passed many women on the street. When I was really bad, last time, I would turn away. This time I allowed the thoughts to come, even invited them, and enjoyed them! I was next to a woman at the traffic lights and had an impulse to wink at her. I didn’t of course, but it really does feel like being on the edge of a precipice. I don’t WANT to enjoy those thoughts! It feels like I am not being true to the deepest part of myself. Sometimes when I pass a woman on the street I feel compelled to look and let my eyes linger, almost addicted to needing to have that thought. It’s not even a sexual thought though, I know this sounds wierd, very difficult to put into words.
I wonder sometimes if I don’t really have OCD but I instead have an addiction to having these thoughts…nah,that’s crap, just another silly thought.
Feeling ashamed of what I have written, because I love my husband very much, but it is wonderful to be able to write to someone who actually gets it. That in itself is a powerful thing.
Take care, and thankyou for your support and care for all of us.
Hi V.,
Thank you for your comments and your kind words.
I am glad to hear that you have stuck with ERP, and are learning how effective it can be in managing your unwanted sexual obsessions. Keep in mind that doubting one has OCD is in fact a very common thought for many people with OCD. It’s just another way your obsessing mind tries to convince you that you are a lesbian.
Keep up the good work!
This post pretty much sums up my situation perfectly:
“For the past few months I have been experiencing hocd like symptoms. Checking for arousal, anxiety and instrusive thoughts. I always had crushes and relationships with females. I’m a 24yo male. I never have any kind of an erection at all when checking. I have said before that I even shrink or lose an erection when I see these videos or images But the thing that’s throwing everything off for me is whenever I’m half alseep (kinda waking up) or dreaming, I can actually get a semi/erect. If I try to fully wake up and focus on these thoughts from the dream or that half alseep waking up state I shrink. What’s the deal with this? I’m really lost on the situation. Please help? Why does this happen?”
As I said before my situation is extremely similar. My anxious thoughts will present themselves like a movie when I am in this half dreaming half conscious state, and I will check for arousal. This is kind of scary because although I know I am checking, I have no control over my actions because, as I’m still half dreaming. I remember I got an erection from this situation and am worried about it. While I’m impressed with how creative my mind is, I want to know why I would have an erection to gay thoughts in half-consciousness?
Hi JJ,
Having an erection when dreaming is normal – all healthy adult males experience erections when they are dreaming. It doesn’t matter if they are dreaming about sex, or trees, or paint drying – they will still have an erection. For more on this topic, check out https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dream-catcher/201406/the-mystery-rem-related-penile-erections.
Furthermore, women experience a similar increase of blood flow to their genitals when dreaming.
Keeping this in mind, and noting that many people awaken from REM sleep (i.e., during or just after dreaming), we can conclude that it would be odd if you didn’t have an erection related to this dream.
Hi Tom:
Thank you very much for your quick reply. Appreciated!
I don’t think I have expressed myself clearly. I know about night time erections and how the dreams don’t necessarily have anything to do with them. But the instance I referred to in the last post feels different: I was sort of having a dream (I say sort of because I knew I was dreaming but was not actually awake, is this “lucid” dreaming?)in which my male friend touched my genital area jokingly (no one was naked). I immediately woke up, and instead of waking up TO an erection I woke up to EXPERIENCE one. In other words I wasn’t erected during the dream, only “as a result of it”.
Is this my HOCD mind talking? I am actually not really bothered by this (or at least I try not to) and I know these things don’t make me gay (I especially like your phrase “there is no secret self”). But I am still interested to know why this happened. Was I suppressing my intrusive thoughts or anxiety too much that they have to be “released” during half-consciousness? It felt like I’m doing the checking ritual during sleep. The fact that I wake up just to see my erection take place makes me think that HOCD is inventing new traps. Can HOCD really be this tricky?
Thanks for your patience, I really like your articles. I kind of self treated my HOCD and got to a point where my everyday life is not affected by it anymore. But I’m by no means anxiety-free and am very much looking forward to reaching that stage.
Thanks again, looking forward to your reply.
JJ
Hi JJ,
The line between being asleep and being awake is not like an on/off switch – many people wake up gradually. So what you perceive as an “after sleep” erection, may actually have started while you were asleep (after all, you acknowledge being “half-conscious” at the time).
That said, I think it is important to stress that it is ok for you to have an erection after having had a gay dream. This doesn’t mean you are gay – it means you were sexually aroused by a fantasy. People get aroused by all sorts of fantasies that they have no intention or desire to fulfill in real life. The problem here is not the dream or the erection – the problem is that you are analyzing the dream and the erection. You don’t really need to know “why” your erection happened. Erections just happen, and they do not require or deserve any analysis whatsoever.
Hi Dr.Corboy, I hope you’re doing well, I don’t know if you remember me, I posted here a few months ago. Anyway I was doing fine, I was getting back to my old self without doubts and then I heard something that made me spike, a gay person said that people who are gay might not know they’re gay but fear that they’re gay and not know of it when they’re young, was basically this and that freaked me out because I obsessed about being a lesbian when I was 13 just because I had lost interest in my current crush at the time and started to think why did I stopped liking him and then bam “omg does this mean I don’t like boys anymore” it was just that and I obsessed about it over a few months and then when it stopped I continued to love boys but after that sometimes if I remembered that I used to obsess about that I would fear that I would get obsessed about that again and that I was indeed a lesbian. What worries me is that I had this obsession before and that that could mean something and I know ocd tends to wax and wane over time, because I have many obsessions about my health, my relationship , natural disasters…which sometimes come back again, but I don’t know I think I’m asking for reassurance here maybe
Anyway, I know that this don’t make a lot of sense because I enjoy sex with men a lot and I don’t have sexual interest in woman, but if I see a pretty woman I freak out because it’s like my brain is trying to convice me that I must be a lesbian to think that other woman is attractive which I know it doesn’t but I still think about it. What bothers me is that I was starting to get normal again whithout this thoughts until that thing happened and I spiked and made me think that if I obsessed about that before must mean something.
Thank you for the attention , and sorry for my bad english
Hi Andrea,
As you mention, OCD symptoms tend to wax and wane over time. You appear to be experiencing a temporary increase in your symptoms, which is normal.
Also, you mention that you were happy to be getting back to your “old self, without doubts”. It sounds like you perhaps became a little too comfortable when your OCD was less active. It’s important to accept doubt rather than resist it. I encourage you to accept that you will sometimes have unwanted thoughts that lead you to have doubts about your sexual orientation. That is the nature of HOCD.
Also, when your gay friend made comments about gay people, you jumped to the conclusion that this somehow applied to you – despite the fact that your life experience strongly suggests that you are not gay. Just because somebody says something doesn’t mean it is true, and it also doesn’t mean it is true about you.
hiee sir great article.i think im also suffering from same but some doubts.i have obsessions sex with family members children etcthat made me felt guilt.i was so terified by it.i remember i have one same sex experience in my childhood.which made me think im gay and my friend commented are you gay.i then started doing mentally checking am i aroused by men.whole day i used to search net learning about gays.i was terrified by it.my chilhood experience also made me terrified and feared that i might act upon it again.i had gronial responses seeing movies i was terrifies and went into depression.then i read your article and found that it is hocd.
but i have 2 thoughts two thoughts discuss
1st-i admire mens look like nice hair style cool look smart.
is this attraction i just admire them just thoughts
2nd-i got sensation in mouth i was disgussted by it but i felt i enjoying it.but then i think its totally illogical why am i thinking myself as gay.
ive alaways loved girls girls are attracted to me im attracted to them.ive always been mad about them whole day i used to think about them.i always fantasy girls.i cannot imagine myself with guys.nor sex.but i read the word homophobia and denial now i doubt am denying or am i bisexual or gay.help me sir i waste my whole day serching net to reassue my self.
Hi James,
When you say “ive alaways loved girls girls are attracted to me im attracted to them.ive always been mad about them whole day”, that sounds pretty straight to me. And straight men can find other men attractive. For example, I can see a photo of George Clooney or Bradley Cooper and recognize and appreciate that they are both very attractive. I see no reason why that should automatically indicate that I want to have sex with them (or any other men for that matter).
As for the sensation in your mouth, I am not really clear what you are talking about. But regardless of that, I am pretty confident that it does not mean you are gay. Mouths have lots of nerve endings and thus, lots of sensations. The only thing that makes those sensations seem sexual to you is that you are over-attending to them and assigning sexual value to them.
Thank you very much for the response. So the fact that I had this obsession before doesn’t mean anything right? That it’s really what fuels my anxiety because I keep thinking that if I had this before it must mean something and the fact that I had this at young age 13/14, as I said before I contiued to like men and I never had a crush on a girl or something but since that time I feared that one day I’m going to find out that I’m gay or something and that I’ll never be able to be with or appreciate men again.
And now I just read so much stuff about HOCD and sexuality that I can’t forget and now I’m thinking that I shouldn’t had read anything , it only made thing worse. I have this problem , I think that everything that happens to others will happen to me. I read a girl’s story that had HOCD but was affraid to be straight and she said that she used to like boys and at 13 started to like girls and that freaked me out since I had the obsession at that age.
I just feel sad , I really wish I could be like I was a few months ago , happy and without doubts
Hi Andrea,
When you ask “So the fact that I had this obsession before doesn’t mean anything right?”, you are asking me to provide you with reassurance. But as I noted in my prior reply to you, it is important to accept doubt rather than trying to resolve it. So rather than answer your question, I am going to suggest you read our article on reassurance seeking.
Hi Dr Corboy. Thank you, I guess you’re right I was seeking reassurance, and I understand that I do it a lot which is not good, when I thought that I had AlS I was constantly asking the doctor “do you think I have it? Are you sure?”, and with HOCD is the same I’m always asking my mother “Is it normal for girls to look at each other?” or “is it normal to not find all guys attractive” things like this. I’ve been reading brain lock and it talks a lot about compulsions so I should apply that to asking for reassurance right?
Thank you for the attention
Hi Andrea,
Reassurance seeking is one of the main ways in which people do compulsions in response to obsessions in OCD. And while Brain Lock is a good start, I strongly encourage you to seek out treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating HOCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
Thank you very much sir.for helping me.
So its normal.im straight?
Hello again James,
I cannot provide you (or anyone) with certainty that you are straight or gay. And your question is a great example of “reassurance seeking”, which is one of the main ways that people act compulsively in response OCD obsessions. If I answer your question, you would only get short-term releif, and soon enough, you would again be plagued by HOCD thoughts. Instead, I encourage you to read our article onreassurance seeking, to accept that you brain has certain unwanted thoughts about your sexual orientation, and to go forward with your life while experiencing uncertainty, which is a common experience for virtually everybody, including those without OCD.
Thank you sir.like i want to date girls so i should continue without responding to any thought,
James – That is correct. Continue with life without responding to the thought.
Thank you Dr, I wish I could work with a therapist but right now I can’t afford it I’m having some financial problems and it’s impossible right now. I know that the theme of the obsession is completely irrelevant but why do some are harder to deal with than others? I think that the only one that was worst than this one was when I thought that I was actually dying, this is the worst, it’s so hard I feel like nothing is the same. And I keep trying to accept the possibility that I might be a lesbian but I just can’t because I like liking men , I know that this obsession about being a lesbian is not rational but I just can’t get it out of my head.
So you think that the book is helpfull but not in the way I need?
Thank you for the attention
I think I have ‘HOCD’ but there’s no anxiety??
Frank,
By definition, HOCD is anxiety about unwanted thoughts related to one’s sexual orientation. I’m not convinced that you have no anxiety related to your thoughts. After all, you have taken the time to search the internet for information about HOCD, and to post a comment on this blog about it. If you had no anxiety about these unwanted thoughts, then you probably wouldn’t do either of these things.
up until march of this year my sexuality was never even a question i just knew i was straight always yearning and having a lust for women, but in march i got this fleeting thougt “what if i was gay” i was so freaked out i coulnd’t eat for a week and after a month or so of dealing with this i learned what HOCD was and i thought “thats what i have”.
i have been to a pysch and she basically says i have OCD. what freaks me out is that the anxiety comes and goes and sometimes i feel like i don’t know myself anymore. sometimes i think i’m losing the person who i once was. the anxiety comes and goes, so it worries me me that i’m accepting being gay, as i’m writing this i’m spiking. sometimes i’ll think i’m just in denial, but then think no i am not. i’m at a point where i even doubt that it’s even ocd and that i’m just a weird case of those people who just turned gay after being straight their whole life. i can’t imagine seeing myself with a another man,kissing them or having sex with one, to me thats just disgusting. i even accept being gay, but sooner or later i start doubt myself once more and i’m stuck once again. doc does this sound like HOCD or am i just in denial?
Hi JHS,
Everything you write sounds like textbook HOCD, including:
~ you’ve always been straight
~ you yearn for and lust after women
~ you had a fleeting thought about being gay and “freaked out” about the thought
~ you are disgusted by the mere thought of kissing a man or having sex with a man
~ you doubt that this is HOCD, and fear that you are secretly in denial
Can you imagine a gay man having the above traits? I can’t.
Hello Mr Corboy I would like to say that this website is possibly the best place on the internet to learn about HOCD and the steps to conquering it.
One week ago I was losing my obsessions. I was nearly done doing compulsions, checking and avoiding triggers and I felt awesome. One of my main compulsions that I perform is masturbation. I did it and checked. And I felt a weird feeling of pleasure when thinking of a gay image. Now I am caught up in a cycle of checking because whenever I masturbate I have this weird feeling in my prostate area. This feeling in my prostate area really has little in common with actual arousal but my mind keeps telling me to check. I’m caught up in this unbreakable cycle and I would like to know, is this weird feeling in my prostate and these doubtful thoughts due to excessive worrying and fear or was I suppressing my real orientation this entire time? Also when I tried to tell myself let the thought flow and masturbate to it. All of my anxiety goes away. It doesn’t feel good but the anxiety goes away. Is this normal? Or was I repressing these thoughts this entire time and I am accepting the fact I’m gay? Please help.
Hi Franz,
Of course you felt pleasure when you masturbated…you were masturbating. You could have thought about a tree or a telephone or a car or whatever, and you would have felt pleasure.
Step #1 – Stop compulsively masturbating in an effort to check your sexual orientation. If you’re going to masturbate, do so with the goal of pleasure, not reassurance that you aren’t gay.
Step #2 – Unless you are a urologist, stop analyzing the sensation in your prostate. Your analyzing is a compulsion, and will only make things worse.
Step #3 – Seek out treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). That will lead to far better results that compulsively checking and analyzing.
Thank you. I just wanted to ask a couple of questions, can hocd make you feel or believe you are actually attracted to the same sex even though you know deep down your not? Also can hocd be the first theme of ocd?
Hi JHS,
Yes, HOCD can lead one to feel or believe they are gay, even when deep down they know they are not – that is practically the definition of HOCD. And yes, HOCD can be the first manifestation of OCD that one experiences.
Thankyou for the response. Do you think it’s possible that the ocd could be tricking me into believing that I’m getting pleasure because I like the thought even though masturbation feels good in itself? Because the only way I can feel pleasure is when I masturbate really hard and I feel force myself to have an orgasm. If I feel any pleasure my ocd makes me believe that I am getting these feelings because I like gay thoughts. I try doing it thinking of objects such as a book shelf and these feelings are there but they are not as strong. Is it because when I think of gay thoughts I focus a lot more on my groin area? I am trying to break out of this obsession but now because I have started checking with disgusting thoughts I have developed obsession about a lot more than homosexuality and if I feel pleasure thinking of these thoughts my OCD tells me it’s because I enjoyed them. Please help this has made everything worse.
Franz,
I think you are spending way too much time analyzing your thoughts, feelings, and sensations. When people without HOCD masturbate, they don’t analyze their thoughts, feelings, and sensations. They just enjoy it and get on with their day. Your hyper-analysis is a mental compulsion, and will only make your HOCD worse. If you masturbate, don’t analyze anything about it.
Hi Tom,
I was wondering if people discover their sexuality in the later age. For example straight since birth then suddently in the mid 20, they turn lesbian or gay.
Akari,
It sounds to me that what you are really asking is “do you think I might possibly just be finally realizing my true sexuality”, which would be a reassurance seeking question, which is a common common compulsion seen in OCD. That said, my experience has been that people don’t generally “discover” they are gay in their mid-20’s. I’m sure there are some gay people who, due to an upbringing in strict families, religions, and/or cultures, have suppressed their true sexual desires. But people don’t just wake up one day in their mid-20’s and say “oh, I think I’m gay and never had any clue until now”.
Thank you doctor for your reply, it has helped me. But now I am obsessing over being transgender and it feels so real like I am losing myself and becoming a totally different person and it is really depressing. First it was HOCD then it was TOCD, then it was HOCD again and now I find myself worrying about being trans again, only this time it feels alot more real and convincing, and sometimes I don’t even have any anxiety so that worries me that I am truly feeling this way. I have never thought or have wanted to be a girl in my entire life ((I’m 19). Have always been comfortable and loved being a dude. I serioulsy don’t want to be transgender. I just want to be me again.
JHS,
Fears of being transgendered are not significantly different from fears of being gay. In both cases, your obsession is “what if my sexuality is not what I would like it to be”. All of the treatment concepts described in this article and in our entire series of articles about HOCD apply just as well to obsessions of being transgendered.
Thanks Tom, I just have a couple of questions. Sorry for bothering so much. Anyway I am very worried I might be trans, I have never felt any desire to do girl things so or to be one. Never felt like I was in the wrong body or anything like that. So my questions are, can OCD specifically TOCD or trans OCD as some people call it make you have false feelings and make you you think that you are trans? Also, what about the people who discovered they were trans later in life? These two thoughts/questions are the ones that make me really anxious and upset.
JHS,
As I noted in my prior reply, fears of being transgendered are not significantly different from fears of being gay. In both cases, your obsession is “what if my sexuality is not what I would like it to be”. Your questions about things related to the possibility of being transgendered are compulsive efforts at reassurance that you are not going to somehow become transgendered.
Your goal should be to accept the presence of these unwanted thoughts, without doing anything in an effort to rid your self of them. Let the thoughts be, and live your life.
Sorry for posting again. I have started therapy but now I have developed obsessions about animals and this scares me. The worst thing that is when I pet my dog I use to get does “I just want to pinch him, he’s so cute,” emotions and “I want to kiss him to death feelings,” but now they feel like they have a perverted aspect to them and this leeds me to believe I have always had these feelings but did not realise it and this feels so real. When i dont check for these feelings they arnt there and this should be enough evidence to tell me it’s ocd not genuine attraction. Last year I use to get intrusive thoughts about bestiality and they bothered me so much I lost nights of sleep and had to see a psychologist to handle them because they were so distressing. Can ocd make me believe I have always had perverted feelings without realising and make it seem like the truth and give my very strong emotions of plutonic love that I have for my dog a perverted feel to them when I am checking for it? Please help.
Mark,
These thoughts are no different than other unwanted thoughts related to sexuality. An unwanted thought is an unwanted thought is an unwanted thought, and your question “can ocd make me believe…” is just a variant of previous questions you have asked here.
You noted “when I don’t check for these feelings, they aren’t there”. I think that speaks volumes. Stop the compulsive checking and you will likely see a significant reduction in the obsessions.
Hello, Tom. Again I have some issues, regarding day-to day stuff in my life, and I would appreciate a response. (even though I could probably do without it)
I’m probably just sneakily looking for reassurance, but should my approach to homosexual thoughts remain consistent for different situations? Because today I walked past a very attractive man, and what instantly frightened me was the thought that went through my brain, which could most simply be interpreted as ‘Damn, he’s SUCH an eye candy’.
This doesn’t happen often around men, but is a thing that consistently fuels my fears and anxieties. I often fear it might happen around men, and when it does, I feel horribly confused. At such moments I really start to question myself.
One of the worst fears triggered by such experience is that one day I will feel such an irresistible attraction to a man that it just might ‘seal the deal’ on my sexual identity. Like I might start pouncing on random hot guys. These encounters also hinder any attempt to distinguish between admiration and actual sexual attraction, if the distinction is relevant in the first place. I’m also unsure is it relevant where I fit on the Kinsey scale, but events like these seem to prove I actually do have some degree of homosexuality within me. I suppose this observation wouldn’t upset me so much if I wasn’t so hung up on everything I think and do. As it is, it just feels like a threat to my overall sense of self.
Joe,
You are absolutely correct…your post is a way of “sneakily looking for reassurance”. These questions are just variations on a theme, and if I answer them, I would be doing you a disservice.
BTW, you don’t need “to distinguish between admiration and actual sexual attraction”. How many people without HOCD spend significant amounts of time trying to discern whether their thoughts are admiration or sexual attraction. None. The same goes for trying to discern where you fit on the Kinsey scale – a compulsion that will only make your OCD worse. And a complete waste of time.
I’ve married my true love and am really happy with her. We’ve got two great kids. Got a great job. My life is going great. Been in love with more girls in my younger years. Never thought of being gay actually, and I’m sure that I’m ‘as straight as can be’.
Now my job is asking more and more of me, the family life is really busy and I’m experiencing my first depression I think. And I’ve just bought my first house and began a mortgage. This is a heavy load on my shoulders. And all of a sudden there it was, the idea of being gay. A, in my case ridiculous thought, but it is bothering me for weeks now.
Could this HOCD start after having a lot of stress, tiredness etc?
Thanx for your great article which gives me a relief already. But now… Get the idea out of my head.
Hi Marten,
Thanks for your comment.
While I cannot provide a diagnosis via a blog comment, I can say that the symptoms you describe sound very much like HOCD. I have no idea whether stress and exhaustion triggered these thoughts for you, and frankly, I don’t think it much matters. What does matter is how you respond to them. Your goal should be to accept that your brain is producing some unexpected thoughts that you don’t much care for, and to do absolutely nothing in an effort to control them. In other words, accept their presence, don’t take them seriously, and don’t do anything compulsive about them. Think of them as rain on a day that you had planned to go to the beach – hardly ideal, but not catastrophic either. Just inconvenient. I encourage you to read our article Mindfulness Based CBT for OCd and Anxiety to help with this.
Hi there, wanted to first mention how helpful this site is (including the other parts of the article).
I have been suffering from HOCD for about 10 months. Since the time it started, I am way more capable of dealing with these thoughts. They are a lot less intrusive on my life and I don’t feel like the thoughts are destroying me anymore. I occasionally still get them, but I feel that I can brush them off easily. I realize that the disease could come back when I am stressed out in the future, but I am wanting to just deal with that when and if it comes up. (Is that a good idea?)
My problem now is that it seems that my attraction to men is not what it used to be. That’s been confusing for me because I feel like I’ve made a lot of progress with the OCD, and I am worried that it has somehow damaged my ability to like men? I doubt this can happen permanently but is it something I should seek help for or something that will come back to me in time?
Thanks so much
Hi K.,
Thanks for commenting.
You point to an often under-reported aspect of HOCD – namely that many people report a reduction in sexual interest (which in turn leads many to incorrectly assume that this is further evidence that they are experiencing a change in their sexual orientation). Some of this may be a function of anxiety and depression, both of which are extremely common for people with HOCD. But many times it is also related to the over-attending to sexuality that occurs in HOCD. In other words, you have spent so many hours analyzing your sexual feelings that they have become less about pleasure and more about fear. Sexual chemistry requires a certain amount of letting go, which is the opposite of OCD. Simply put, over-analysis doesn’t improve sex.
If there is a special man in your life, I encourage you to act how you acted pre-HOCD.
Hi Tom,
I’m a 25 year old lesbian and I knew this since I was little. I have a relationship with my girlfriend for now 3 years. I love her with all my heart but about 4 months ago I started having straight thoughts. The thoughts about what it would feel like to do sexual things with a guy but I feel gross, guilty, and confused by them. I have watched naked guys online just to verify that I don’t get turn on. I repeatedly try to imagine if I would like to sexually be with a guy but I don’t like those thoughts. They have been bothering me so much and I over think everything so much I get headaches. Now just recently I see guys and I don’t find them attractive but it’s like I try to find something attractive about them to make me feel bad or something. I’ll try to explain…it’s like when you go up a roller coaster then go down and you get that feeling in your stomach like a fluttery feeling of fear. I get scared that whenever I see a guy the thoughts will come back or when they tap me on the shoulder or get close to me I get that feeling again but at the same time uncomfortable. I just want to know if this could be from ocd? N what I can do to stop it… what steps can I take?
Hi Mary,
I am so glad you are commenting. We often receive emails and blog comments from people who think this condition is all about people being closeted homosexuals, and I have repeatedly explained that there are many gay people with this same fear…only their obsession is that they are secretly straight. So welcome to the conversation.
That said, there is no reason to view this as any different form traditional HOCD. Let’s just call it “Straight OCD”…an obsession that one is secretly really straight. Either way, the treatment is the same. Accept the existence of the thoughts without doing anything to combat them. Think of these thoughts as an unwanted fly in the room that just won’t leave and keeps buzzing around your head. Annoying? Yes. Catastrophic? Not at all.
Never forget that these are just thoughts. Pretty much everyone asks themselves about their sexual orientation at one time or another. For most, this is just a passing thought that they instantly write off without any distress whatsoever. But for people with OCD, this thought becomes overwhelming in it’s insistence.
If you are unable to move past these thoughts, I encourage you to seek out treatment with a therapists who specializes in treating HOCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
I was able to resist all types of compulsions and rituals until the night. In the night, I started to research on a little further and found some articles that said that one homosexual experience did not define you. This got me thinking: “oh, maybe I do want to experiment, but then I’ll want to experiment again, because I am really going to like it; thus, I’ll live my life just saying I am “experimenting” while I say to the others that I am straight.” Even though I felt really anxious at the moment, I also felt like it was real; like if I really wanted to experiment, and that this would actually feel good, and that it would be something that I would enjoy. Couple of minutes later, after the anxiety subdued, I realised that I would probably not be capable of experimenting; however, in the time of the “thought” I felt like it was something that I truly wanted to do and would truly enjoy. Is it normal for these intrusive thoughts to be positive, meaning that they didn’t cause me “disgust” but instead triggered a sentiment of enjoyment??? Does it have to do with homosexuality?? I am very confused and haven’t been able to concentrate on anything for the last 12 hours…
I wish I had found this years ago.
I’m not sure if my case is different or not, but I would LOVE your insight into this. I’ll try to keep it as quickly as possible …
Been married for 12 years, have had 3 romantic relationships with women, all which have felt pretty genuine and authentic for the most part – except that in terms of physicality, I have never found a woman’s body to be terrible arousing. I can get aroused for sure, but I have ALWAYS preferred the male form much more – hence which has caused me so much confusion over the years. I have a crazy fetish for men’s underwear, always look at guys at the beach with shirts off far more than woman, and almost always masterbate to fantasies involving the male body in one way or another. This persists even when I’m not in the ‘throes of OCD questioning,’ and they usually do not pose a ‘significant’ problem except that they are persistent as a hard-wire to my sexuality – then once every year or so, I get caught up in this orientation crisis because my fantasies are so consistently ‘homosexual,’ almost exclusively, really – so it’s liked mixed signals all the time. I’m also not afraid of being gay – I used to be terrified of the idea when I was much younger – now I’m sort of in the place where if I’m gay, fine, let me be gay and stop the ruminating – just be it. Sometimes that thought even excites me – to finally ‘be’ something. But that hasn’t felt right, either. The thought of kissing / cuddling / or even some sexual activity turns me on ( with the right male fantasy model ), but the reality of being with another man is oddly off-putting when I ‘try it on’ in my mind. Still, the fetishes and fantasies remain in the forefront of my sexuality. So frustrating.
What do you think?
Hi Clara,
It is quite common in OCD that a person will have an unwanted thought, will not be freaked out by that thought, and will then freak out that they weren’t freaked out by the thought. This called a “backdoor spike”, and is especially common in the more obsessional variants of OCD such as HOCD, ROCD, and Harm OCD.
The good news is that you are able to see that after a few minutes, your belief in the accuracy and legitimacy of the thought lessened. Your goal is to accept and tolerate the presence of the thought, which may at first be difficult, especially during that “few minutes” to which you refer.
But if you just let the unwanted thought sit there, with no effort on your part to alleviate it, it will decrease. You have the evidence from your own experience that this happens. Now you just have to remind yourself of that evidence, and do nothing when the unwanted thoughts re-appear (and they will almost certainly reappear…but they are just thoughts).
Hi Mark,
Human sexuality can be a strange and wonderful thing! You report not being turned on by women, having almost exclusively homosexual fantasies, being turned on by the idea of homosexual activity, being ok with the idea of being gay, and that your heterosexual relationships have been authentic…except in the area of sexual arousal. Perhaps you are gay, or bi or…whatever.
I cannot speak for your sexual orientation, but I don’t think it needs a label or any rules for how you act with consenting adults. What I can say is that you appear to be more distressed with the possibility of being gay than you let on, or else you wouldn’t be struggling with these issues so much. Ultimately, I don’t think you need a label, or even an answer to the question “Am I gay”. I think you would be better served by accepting the presence of the thought “I might be gay”, and then choosing to love whomever you love.
Hello, thanks for the article. It was truly helpful.
The one thing which caused me some anxiety was the question: do you like to have gay sex? This got me imagining certain scenarios of having sex with women, although many times they were unpleasant, sometimes I felt that I would actually like to have them, and would enjoy them. However, this thought then caused me more anxiety. Is this the mind playing with us or would this be an indication of homosexuality??
I saw in a post from above that you said that what you were trying to say was more like “would you rather be having same-sex intercourse than having this conversation?”. Although I know that in reality it would be very hard for me to engage in same- sex intercourse, i doubt if I would want to do it; if whether I would prefer having sex intercourse with a friend than this conversation… My reaction varies. How should I handle these thoughts?
In part three it says that homosexual fantasies can be enjoyed by heterosexuals. Would imagining oneself with a female (I’m a female) having intercourse be a homosexual fantasy? Does accepting it and enjoying it indicate homosexuaity?
Thanks for your help!
Melania
Hi Melania,
Yes, this constant obsessing about whether you would enjoy sex with other women is your OCD playing tricks on you. You say that you doubt you would want to have sex with women, which is a pretty good indicator that you are not gay. And yes, imagining your self having sex with a woman would be a typical homosexual fantasy for a woman.
As for how to handle these thoughts, the answer is to do nothing. Allow the thoughts to exist without analyzing them in any way. They are just thoughts and they do not deserve this much of your time and energy. In fact, they deserve no time or energy at all. I encourage you to read our article Mindfulness Based CBT for OCD and Anxiety.
Thank you very much Dr.Tom,
It’s Melania from the previous post. I forgot to mention that I am only 18, and will be turning 19 in February, hope this doesn’t change your response/ (outcome of the question).
So basically, what I have to focus is just accepting the thoughts as they are without analysing them even though they might sometimes tell me that I would enjoy a homosexual experience?
Also, although I have had many crushes on men, I remember a particular attraction (I don’t think it was sexual), to certain women/ girls throughout my life. Although I might not have wanted to have a romantic relationship with them, there was something that I found in them which was maybe something else beyond being beautiful. For example, a mexican friend in first grade, or my pilates teacher in tenth grade (these are just some examples). Are these attractions normal? Is it a way of sorting through out the emerging sexual feelings? I can’t seem to stop analyzing my past history.
Thank you!,
Melania
Hello again Melania,
You wrote: “So basically, what I have to focus is just accepting the thoughts as they are without analysing them even though they might sometimes tell me that I would enjoy a homosexual experience?”
Yes, that is exactly correct.
You also wrote: “I can’t seem to stop analyzing my past history.”
And this analysis is exactly the problem. You are analyzing thoughts and feelings from years ago in an attempt to get clarity about something that doesn’t require clarity. So you found some people of the same gender interesting and appealing. That doesn’t make you gay. It just means that you found them likable.
The key is to accept that you liked these people (who just happened to be females) as human beings, and to stop analyzing what this means.
Likewise, stop analyzing your thought that you might enjoy having a same-sex experience. You are analyzing something that hasn’t even occurred.
Hello. I am a female. Quick question, can HOCD thoughts cause you to think at times that you are (or doubt) having an emotional crush on a female friend? Even though in reality you would doubt pursing a romantic relationship with them.
Regards, Louise
Hi Louise,
Yes, that is a common experience with HOCD.
Hello! I wanted to ask you something. Does HOCD occur in teenagers?
Thank you!
Hi Davis,
HOCD, or any sub-type of OCD for that matter, can occur at pretty much any age. It is quite common for HOCD to begin in the teen years.
Hey doc
I really didn’t want to say this, but sometimes i literally sit down at work and say “you know what, i’m gay, i can accept it, my friends and family may never speak to me again, i’ll find new people that will, my ex girlfriend will probably go mental thinking she was dating a guy who in all honest didn’t know he was in the closet, but she’ll just have to accept that” and then like 5 minutes later its like i’m telling myself “you’re not gay, how can you think that, when was the last time you thought a guy was hot or you wanted to do something with a guy, stop being stupid” and then the endless cycle continues.
Yesterday I contemplated ending my life, but i’m sure that’s just the anxiety talking, because 20 minutes later as crazy as it sounds, it’s like i forgot about the situation and enjoyed my life. I know i’m a generally anxious person, today i caught myself wiping my office table of dust and crumbs and stuff, and picking lint off my wool jumper on numerous occasions (OCD-esque). I do other things that point to this condition, but i wish i didn’t have it, i’m scared i won’t overcome it, it will possibly destroy my life, and i’ll probably end up ending it (i come from a very very uptight family, but i myself am very accpting of a lot of people, I don’t really care about anyone else’s sexual orientation or anything but i care about mine)
it’s getting to the point where i get mild erections and i go “shit was i thinking about guys then”.
But thank you for these blog posts, I gave one stupid dream way too much attention, now i’ve ruined my life, becuase i don’t want to be gay, i was very happy chasing after and falling for women, and now things are upside down.
I’m not going to seek proffessional help, because quite frankly, i’m completely independent at 23 in the UK and i simply cant afford it.
Time to sleep off todays anguish and deal with tomorrows anguish when i wake up (also thanks for not replying, i know you’re really busy)
understandable.
Charles
Hi Charles,
The “endless cycle” you refer to is typical of all forms of OCD. And for those with HOCD, this endless cycle focuses issues of sexual orientation. In other words, the symptoms you present sound like textbook HOCD.
You note that you aren’t considering treatment, which frankly, makes no sense at all. You live in the UK, and the NHS will provide you with free CBT for OCD.
Finally, if you are considering ending your life, I implore you to go to an emergency room immediately.
Hey Doc,
I think I was just having a really bad week looking for answers when I couldn’t get any reassurance as to what was actually going on with me (because ultimately only I really know whats going on, so only i can ultimately help myself, and i get it now). The NHS have a 2 week waiting list and I work a stringent 9 to 5, so there is no way that therapy with the NHS will work.
I’ve realized that these thoughts have sort of subsided a little since the first 2 weeks when I would go into panic attack mode after thinking about the weird dream and now I know that they were just thoughts. They still seem to pop up every now and again and manifest in different ways, for example in the first couple weeks I would see a random guy and get a shock to the system, because I’ve seen this person as a threat to my sexual orientation or something and get really weird homo-erotic thoughts, and react to it. As soon as I stopped reacting (forcing them out of my mind, or trying to neutralize them with thoughts of women which actually never worked cause the women morphed back into men which really made me feel like i was trapped, they literally stopped occurring alot.
Now, it seems to have become more and more real. I used to go to the gym alot (not so much anymore because of this condition), and I was fixated on getting bigger and everything, so when I would see super fit guys, it was admiration more than anything else. Now when i see super fit or muscular guys, it’s like i get that shock to the system and i want to look away. This is also occurring when I see attractive men in real life now. Whats even worse is that i cant look at any of my male work colleagues in the eye anymore, because of this.
A couple weeks ago i was really uncomfortable watching tv because of attractive men, sports too, because i’d get that weird shock, but this seems to be getting better now.
I don’t know if these are signs of me getting better or my HOCD finding a new way to present itself.
Have you ever com across this before when dealing with HOCD?
And also, when will i get my attraction to women back that suddenly went missing after i started panicking and checking?
because there’s this one woman I just met that i’m trying to connect with, but HOCD is making it hard!!!
Thanks,
Charles
Charles,
The good news is that when you stopped resisting the thoughts, they decreased. This is to be expected. Now your job is to accept their presence whenever they arise. Resistance is futile. I encourage you to read our article OCD, Anxiety and Resistance.
There is no legitimate reason your HOCD should be a barrier to pursuing a relationship with a woman. You can have these unwanted thoughts and pursue her, or you can have them and not pursue her. Either way, you have the thoughts. And that is all they are – thoughts.
Also, IMHO, a two-week wait list is not a very good reason for not seeking help. Your initial comment here was almost two-weeks ago. As for the 9-5 bit, I am confident there are therapists in the UK who work evenings and/or Saturdays. I encourage you to visit the website of OCDUK at http://www.ocduk.org for information about treatment providers in the UK who specialize in OCD.
I am a teenager and have had many crushes on men, but the last months I believe I’ve been absorbed by HOCD.
Talking with a female friend of mine, she commented that a friend of ours had just had a boob job and that her boobs looked so nice and perfect that she even wanted to touch them. When she showed me the pictures, this got me thinking that I wanted to touch them as well because they do look appealing and attractive. Would wanting to touch another girl’s boobs and thinking they look nice/ attractive be an indication of homosexuality?
Moreover, I’ve been tormented by other situations where I am a place (example: gym) and I see a girl which I would label as attractive and I feel some sort of impulse to be her friend/ or more close to her. This gets me thinking that it is probably because I have a sexual/ emotional/ homosexual attraction towards her. However, I would not want to be with her in a relationship (or would I?)
What should I do with these thoughts (boobs and finding the girl attractive)? Could these be indications of homosexuality or could they just be results of being a teenager and “having a brain”? Should I just accept them? (I’ve seen this is your primary recommendation)
My mind then starts to go to greater extents and makes me even start to question if I would enjoy licking her boobs. Sometimes I believe I would enjoy licking them although in reality I would say that I wouldn’t be able and wouldn’t want to do it (at least I think). Sorry if I’m being too confusing or too specific, I just feel very anxious and wanted to ask if these are homosexual characteristics.
I’m very very anxious,
thank you very much,
Amanda
Hi Amanda,
You don’t sound gay to me. Gay women like the idea of having sex with other women. You are so anxious and uncomfortable with these thoughts that you are researching the internet in an effort to figure out why you are having them.
I don’t think noticing that another girl is attractive makes you gay. Why shouldn’t you notice beauty in the world, regardless of whether it is in the form of a sunset, or a work art…or an attractive woman? I also think it is normal to want to be friends with an attractive person. That doesn’t automatically mean you want to have sex with her?
As for your friend’s newly-enhanced boobs, my answer is essentially the same. Why shouldn’t you be curious about them. And your brain is going to come up with all sorts of thoughts about those boobs, including “would I like to lick them”.
Everybody has weird, unexpected thoughts about sex. If everyone who had unexpected thoughts about being gay, virtually everybody on the entire planet would be gay.
Hey Doc,
One last question before i stop going on message boards. Is a sudden loss of attraction to women a symptom seen in HOCD?
Charles
Hi Charles,
Many people with HOCD report a concern that they are suddenly less attracted to the opposite sex. My experience has been that this is not a genuine loss of attraction, but rather a variation of the HOCD obsession. In other words, the obsession becomes, “OMG, what if I no longer find women attractive – that would mean I am gay!!!” And just like other obsessions, the more you over-attend to it, the more likely you are to over-value it (i.e., you start to believe it is true when it was just a thought). This is just one more HOCD thought.
Hello Tom,
Thank you for all your patience. In a previous comment, you responded to me that it was a common experience in HOCD to start doubting if you are having an emotional crush on a same sex friend. What should I do in these cases? I feel that id accept the possibility of being attracted to her than I would then want to pursue these actions. I don’t want to feel like im living on denial.
Thanks again,
Louise
Hi Louise,
What you should do is this: Accept that you are having unwanted, unexpected thoughts that are common in OCD, and get on with your day.
Your job is to accept that strange and unwanted thoughts sometimes pop into your head, that you tend to sometimes take these thoughts far more seriously than they deserve, and to stop analyzing those thoughts.
Also, you suggest that if you were to accept the possibility of being attracted to a female that you would want to pursue a relationship. But just because the possibility exists that an individual finds someone else attractive does not mandate that the individual act on that attraction.
Hi Tom-
The idea of being a lesbian has plagued my mind for the last 2 months.
I have all the symptoms of HOCD that have been discussed within the many comments, as well as this article. (I.e. Checking state of arousal around same sex, monitoring groinal responses while looking at same sex pictures, experiencing intrusive thoughts of the same sex)
Recently, I had accepted that thoughts are thoughts. Like I’ve read in some of your replies: Thoughts don’t make you who you are, your actions do.
Recently though, these intrusive thoughts have progressed to the intimate setting of the bedroom.
I will be having sex with my fiancé, who is a male. I try very hard to focus on him during intercourse; however, whenever my eyes are closed, the image of a random woman will pop into mind. I begin to imagine that now, I’m actually kissing that girl. Or it is that woman that I’m getting intimate with. I grow increasingly disturbed, because I can feel my body responding to those thoughts in a state of arousal.
Are these thoughts manifesting so strongly because I’m trying to focus solely on my fiancé, and trying to force the thought of women out of my mind?
I feel I should note that while I am having thoughts of having sex with women, I do not desire to have a relationship or future with a woman as my partner, which I always tell myself whenever intrusive thoughts occur.
Also, if during high anxiety times or “spikes,” I find comfort in reading your responses to these comments, has it become a compulsion?
Hi Amy,
While I cannot provide a diagnosis in a blog, I can say that everything you write sounds like HOCD. The problem is that you are doing compulsions in response to the thoughts, specifically:
~ trying “very hard” to focus on your fiancé when having sex
~ trying to force the thoughts of women out of your mind
~ telling yourself that you “do not desire to have a relationship or future with a woman” whenever you find your self experiencing unwanted thoughts.
~ reading our blog for comfort at times of gay panic.
The bottom line is that your thoughts are going to go wherever they want, and if you try to force your thoughts in a certain direction, you will make things worse. Your goal is to allow these thoughts (or any thoughts) to appear while making no effort to conrol them. So what if you think about a woman when making love with your fiancé. It is just a thought.
It is also worth noting that, when you find yourself aroused by thoughts of women while having sex with your fiancé, you may be giving the thoughts more value than they deserve. I suspect that your body is doing what it is designed to do – i.e., to respond to sexual stimulation. If you were to think about paint drying while your fiancé is stimulating you, you would likely still get aroused. Would you then assume that the idea of paint drying turns you on? Of course not.
Hi, I have some quastions. I am 17 years old male. I think I have HOCD. I just started reading about internalized homophobia. And that gave me a huge spike. I have always been thinking about girls. And had many crushes on them. I always felt sexualy attracted to them, as soon as I can remember. I never felt sexualy attracted to guys or anything. It all started about 2-3 months ago. I had anxiety every day, I started check and check and check. One week I just stoped thinking about it. It was hard, but it slowly started to go away! My attraction to girls came back even stronger! But it came back again after some days… And now, I am reading same things 30 times a day, just as I used to. Go to same forums. And I came across Internalized homophobia. Can you explein to me what internalized homophobia is? Do gay people feelt sexualy attracted to girls? I have been a little homophobic….. Please help me!
Hi Christopher,
Everything you write sounds like HOCD to me, specifically:
“I have always been thinking about girls.”
“And had many crushes on them.”
“I always felt sexualy attracted to them, as soon as I can remember.”
“I never felt sexualy attracted to guys.”
So long as you continue to do compulsions (i.e., checking , reading things over and over, going to online forums, etc.), you can expect that your OCD will get worse.
I will elect not to answer your question about internalized homophobia, as this would be accommodating your OCD. You don’t need reassurance about internalized homophobia – you need to read about the futility of reassurance seeking.
Hello,
My name is Brenna and I am a 21 year old college student. I have been in a relationship with a man for over two and a half years, and have been very content up until a couple of days ago. I started reflecting on myself growing up and thinking about how I used to be attracted to certain girls and that I would always tend to want to be close to them and know them on a deeper level. It was up until the point that I would get jealous if they talked to other girls or guys. At the time, I never really even considered it to be sexual at all, and never wanted to have sexual intercourse with any of the girls (yet I felt very attached and liked them it seemed). However, now that I reflect and think about it I feel sick to my stomach because I don’t know if my past thoughts make me a lesbian. I want to be in a relationship with my boyfriend but now I am even questioning if I still love him and it’s making me sick to my stomach. I just want everything to go back to how it was before these thoughts were in my head so I can go back to loving my boyfriend like how I used to.
Hi Brenna,
You note that your feelings for girls when you were young were never sexual, and that you just wanted deeper relationships with them, even to the point of being jealous of their closeness with others. That doesn’t sound like a lesbian to me – it sounds like you wanted closer non-sexual relationships. You also note that, as a result of your anxiety about your sexual orientation, you are now questioning your current heterosexual relationship. This is a very common symptom of HOCD. Finally, you note that you want to be in a relationship with your current boyfriend. Well…you are in a relationship with him. Relationships are not about the various thoughts swimming through our heads – they are about what we choose to do. Pay no attention to the unwanted thoughts about being a lesbian, and go about the business of having your already existing heterosexual relationship. Actions speak louder than words…and thoughts.
Hi
I’m 26 years old and believe I am suffering with this HOCD. I have a boyfriend and child and everything started a month after I stopped my birth control. My mind tells me that I am a lesbian and want to engage in lesbian stuff but I know in my heart this is not what I want. When I have these thoughts or think of them I feel distress. I want them out of my head and I either stand there screaming at myself or hit my head against the wall or back of the sofa. I normally end up in tears because I don’t understand why these thoughts won’t leave me.
I’ve always been interested in men,always wanted a boyfriend but I’m now starting to think maybe I’m indenial and I’ve been a lesbian all along or have suddendly become one. When I’m with my boyfriend it feels right, I like his arms around me and stuff and kissing him and having sex with him,but my mind tells me I want a woman and I start talking to myself in my head or out loud and reassuring myself that I am straight and my boyfriend is what I want. If I say I am a lesbian I feel nothing, I look at pictures of women in their underwear and feel nothing so I don’t understand why my mind won’t let me rest. When I think of my future with my boyfriend I feel so happy and know that is all I want. I feel this doesn’t last for long before another thought or image enters my head.
I feel physically sick at the prospect that I’m a lesbian. I really don’t want lesbian sex or anything remotely to do with being gay. Whenever I cuddle my partner my head tells me I wish that was a woman and I don’t. I want to cuddle my partner without these intrusive thoughts,I never had them before in my life. I’m now convinced they are real and I’m so distressed about it.
This is taking over my entire life. I’m obsessed, can’t sleep. I just want my partner forever but I’m constantly doubting myself and these wishing thoughts are the worst because I don’t wish that but I must because my mind tells me so. I’ve looked up pictures of lesbians and I really don’t want that. I feel nothing but this doesn’t do anything to reassure me for long. I’ve got therapy treatment but it’s not ocd. Do u think I need this. I’ve never questioned myself in my 26 years until a few months ago. Please help me understand what is going on.
Sometimes I feel,suicidal because of these thoughts.
Please get back to me. Please please please.
Hi Emma,
All of thoughts you are describing are consistent with HOCD. You note that “it feels right” with your boyfriend, that you like his arms around you, like kissing him and having sex with him, and that you “don’t want lesbian sex or anything remotely to do with being gay”. That sounds like a straight girl with HOCD, not like a lesbian.
If your therapy is not directly addressing your unwanted thoughts, your symptoms will not improve. You would likely benefit from seeing a therapist who specializes in HOCD treatment using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), which numerous studies have found to be the best approach to managing OCD.
Finally, allow me to note that I am concerned about your banging your head against the wall, and that I am even more concerned about your suicidal thoughts. If you are genuinely suicidal, please take your self to your local emergency room immediately.
Hi, this is me again. Thanks for your answare. For few days ago my HOCD started to fade away, really slowly. And I was happy, but something happend that got me into the circle of HOCD again (But I still try not to react to the thoughts) I went through diffrent stages, i felt gay and so on. And about 4 days ago, I found a girl really attractive. I loved that, but I thought about the message i got from one of the people who beat HOCD. Here is the link: http://www.psychforums.com/obsessive-compulsive/topic48932-40.html
He wrote to me that it is impossible for me to fear the opposite sex no matter what. And boom, I got really anxious. And back to HOCD circle. I felt need to check it again, and another burst of anxiety. I am very worried that I will not like opposite sex anymore. (And try not to react to the thoughts.) Now this is stuck on my mind, and I can`t let the thought go. When ever I try to think about a girl, it happens. And it never happend befour. I read that some people also experianced it. But is this another game HOCD plays on me? I would appreciate your anwsware about this.
Christopher,
People say all sort of things on online forums. The issue here is not what the person wrote, but rather your compulsive reaction to it. I encourage you to immediately stop checking comments on online forums, as they appear to lead to an increase in obsessions and compulsions for you.
Hello,
I’ve been diagnosed with OCD and what I hope is HOCD for a few months on and off. I have been in a great relationship with a guy I love very much. I had very bad ROCD which began after we tried to have sex and it didn’t work out. Then all of a sudden, bam I was hit with the thought “what if i am gay?” This upset me very much. I obsess about it all hours of the day and mentally review and check. I do not want to be gay but the worst part is I couldn’t tell you why. I, unlike so many HOCDers am not repulsed by the thought of lesbianism, I just do not want it to be me. And because I do not have a reason that I so badly do not want it to be me I can’t seem fight the nervousness and the pressure on my chest and the thoughts that say, “oh come on you would like it.” Are they real or not? Ever since i can remember I have thought boys were cute and have liked them, but now when I try really hard to see myself with a boy in the future its like my brain replaces it with a woman and says “you would like this more” and then I feel gay. Please help me. Does this sound Like HOCD or am i kidding myself?
Hi Emily,
Yes, this sounds exactly like HOCD. You are in a great relationship with a guy you love, and you are having OCD thoughts about your sexual orientation and your relationship. Just because you are not repulsed by the idea of lesbianism doesn’t mean you are a lesbian. It just means you are straight without being horrified by lesbianism.
Ok so im a woman and I have 3 kids and everything. But the thing is, regular sex, woman on woman or men with women – does not turn me on at all. But watching guy on guy action does gets me excited. What does this mean? What am i? What is the label for this? Is this bad?
Hi Meekaboo,
People get turned on by all sorts of stuff, and your predilection for gay male porn doesn’t necessarily mean anything. If you saw the movie “The Kids are Alright”, you likely remember the scene in which two lesbians are watching gay male porn. On the surface, that makes no sense whatsoever, but apparently a fair number of lesbians enjoy gay male porn, and they obviously are not gay males. (You can read more about this at http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/07/18/the-lesbians-who-love-male-gay-porn.html).
The bottom line is that people can and do get turned on by all sorts of stuff. I don’t believe you are bad for what turns you on, and I don’t believe you need a label other than “human”. So long as nobody is being hurt, enjoy whatever it is you enjoy.
Hi,
I’ve read this article multiple times and I feel like it really describes me. But the HOCD cycle just doesn’t end. It makes me keep questioning and checking and asking/googling for reassurance.
All my life I’ve been attracted to guys and wanted relationships with guys. ( I am a 20 year old girl) I’ve been with my boyfriend for three years now and I love him and being with him but there are times that I feel bored with the relationship. We don’t have sex often and that’s because of me. I enjoy doing sexual things with him when I am in the mood but having sex just doesnt always feel good for me. I just read something online where a girl said she would have sex with men but never really care for it or be into it and would just lay there. And now she realized she likes girls and loves having sex with them because it feels more natural. I’m just panicking because that’s what I do during sex but I never wish I was having sex with a girl or want to date one.
Also, the girl from the article said that just because she was “wet” from her boyfriend it must mean she was enjoying the sex. Even though she felt like she wasn’t and eventually realized she was gay. I also think this sometimes too so that makes me really nervous. A lot of times I do get anxious because I’m a little shy and uncomfortable during sex so maybe that’s why I feel this way. Even though I know I like guys, when Im spiking from Hocd I feel like I can’t even like guys.
I love my boyfriend and the ocd drives me crazy. I always have to picture myself kissing random girls or friends to mentally check if I’m gay or not. The thought of having to like and date and do sexual things with girls makes me sick to my stomach and gives me EXTREME anxiety. But I’m worried that because I don’t enjoy sex that I’m just forcing myself to be straight and that Im secretly gay.
I just want to know what’s wrong with me?? Do I have hocd or would I really just be happier with girls even though I don’t want to be and don’t have any feelings towards them? I am just in deep denial? She also said she had sex with guys to try to fit in and would talk herself into thinking it will be fun and she’ll enjoy it but she never did until she was with a girl. I feel like I try to talk myself into making sex fun but it just always leaves me feeling anxious and just wanting it to be over. I love pleasing my boyfriend and doing it for him but it makes me feel like something is wrong with me because I don’t always want to have sex with him.
Ive never had a strong sexual desire with anyone but I love kissing guys and dating them gives me butterflies and it just feels right. But this has just been giving me a panic lately.
And also, when my friends talk about sex I feel better when I fit in and talk about it too because im self conscious about not enjoying it and not having it too much.
I’m sorry for ranting but when reading that article my ocd really spiked because I act the same way as someone who realized they are gay and now I just feel so confused. Since I was a little girl I can remember having crushes on boys. I do find girls attractive but I don’t want to kiss them or anything like that. My mind does make me think about all of these situations though. I just want you to know a bit about my life before you assume I don’t actually have ocd. I know I need help but I don’t trust talking to any therapist that I don’t know. To be honest I really trust OCDLA and want your opinion. Thank you.
Gabrielle,
Just because somebody writes something about their sexuality that matches some of your experience doesn’t mean you are gay. Everything you write strongly suggests you are straight and that you have HOCD, especially
“The thought of having to like and date and do sexual things with girls makes me sick to my stomach and gives me EXTREME anxiety.”
and
“I love kissing guys and dating them gives me butterflies and it just feels right.”
and
“Since I was a little girl I can remember having crushes on boys. I do find girls attractive but I don’t want to kiss them or anything like that.”
Different people have different sex drives, and your relative lack of interest in sex may simply be that you aren’t as sexual as some other people. Also, you may have some discomfort with sexuality that could possibly be addressed via psychotherapy.
Can sexual orientation change? Since early childhood have I had crushes on boys and been in love with boys, been attracted to them etc. But since summer 2014, a vicious cycle has begun. I had a gay dream and woke up in panic. I then started to obsess about my sexual orientation. I don’t know what is wrong with me, how can something so fundamental just change? Please help me I’m getting severely depressed and have so much anxiety…
Jane,
People don’t just wake up one day with a new sexual orientation, and nothing you write suggests that you have changed – you merely had a dream which you mistakenly assumed meant something about your sexual orientation. We all have dreams that are full of fantastical ideas and images that have nothing to do with reality. Nothing fundamental about you has changed, and the only thing “wrong” with you is that you are obsessing about something on the basis of a dream.
Thanks for great articles-they are so helpful for people who suffer through ocd.
I am 21 and I never really thought about orientation until all of this-I guess I mean I always assumed I was straight. I was always attracted to men and had straight relationships. I’ve currently been with my boyfriend for 3 years.
I guess my main problems are I pick through my past and ruminate trying to find meaning. I once had a friend that was a female who I always wanted to impress and I really enjoyed talking to her. Prior to hocd I once thought “maybe I had a crush on her…but how weird, that doesn’t seem like me. I love my boyfriend”.
I also once thought a lesbian was pretty. Additionally I’ve always kind of been turned on by pregnancy; something about a pregnant belly seems appealing. I don’t think I look at these women sexually or romantically, just aesthetically pleasing. I’ve always imagined myself being pregnant and being married to a man; it feels right, I love my boyfriend, and I like straight sex. I can definitely tell when a woman is beautiful which also freaks me out. So I guess a combination of all of these things are what fuel my ocd. At the worst I wasn’t even able to leave home, I would constantly check for attraction, I read about hocd all the time, and so on.
Do you have any thoughts or insight based on what I describe? Does it sound like ocd? I’ve been to two therapists who have said its ocd but they dont practice ERP or CBT.
Hi Brittany,
Picking through your past thoughts in attempt to find evidence about your sexual orientation is definitely a compulsion, which will only led to more obsessions. Besides, why shouldn’t you find some lesbians attractive? Some lesbians are attractive, just like some straight people are attractive. One’s sexual orientation is not dependent on being attractive or unattractive. The same goes for pregnant women.
I’m glad you have found therapists who understand that this is OCD, but I am not surprised that they don’t know how to provide ERP. Unfortunately, this is quite common. I encourage you to find a therapist who specializes in treating HOCD with ERP, as this is your best bet for recovery. Take care.
I’m an 18 years old straight male and currently dating a girl and I’ve never really doubted my sexuality until seeing a movie where the main character turned out to be gay (the imitation game). I’ve always loved girls, been sexually attracted to them and had crushes on them, but now that i’ve been having a lot of unwanted thoughts that I might be gay, it’s very difficult for me to be aroused about straight sex. I love my girlfriend, and still i think about the chances of being gay and hurting her feelings. I don’t want to be gay, i’ve pictured myself being with men and even believing that I could be aroused by gay sex, but i feel uncomfortable and repulsed by the idea of it and somehow still think I could enjoy it. All of a sudden i just feel less attracted to women. Can you please advise me on how to get rid of these unwanted thoughts?
Hi Sid,
If seeing a movie with a gay character can make one gay, then pretty much everyone in the world is gay. On the other hand, everything you write suggests that you are not gay.
I can’t advise you on how to get rid of unwanted thoughts because it is impossible – everyone has unwanted thoughts. The key is to not take these thoughts seriously. They are just thoughts. I encourage you to accept the existence of the thoughts (note I did not say you need to accept the accuracy of the thoughts – just their existence). Resistance of the existence of any thought is a ticket to trouble.
Hi
This OCD is killing me. Well the situation goes like this:
I had a foreign friend who called me for a dinner and out of nowhere I thought was there a possibility that he might…you know….be asking me out on a date or something. I got nervous but later on when we met I felt no worry then.
However, I got freaked out by the thoughts above when returning to my home and the suspect of me as a gay was kinda lingering on my mind. I attempted to remember and oh once in a car I kinda wanted to kiss the male driver who was my best bud but i realized that was stupid and I didn’t even take it as a big deal.
But when connecting that story with this really made me feel awakard. I mean I do not wanna be a gay but my stupid mind always says why not but oh there’s no chemical thing whatsoever between me and the same gender even I checked out the relative sexual images and did the picturing. But this why-not-and-you-are voice in my head really drove me crazy and I even got a PE during my sex with my girlfriend and it damaged my libido as a result.
I am almost certain that I do not wanna be a gay cause that really freaks me out but I just can’t stop the mind. I tried the method in part 2 but it strengthened that you-are-a-gay psychological hint as I question myself:”see you are accepting the used-to-be nasty things in your mind so that you must be a gay(oh I don’t wanna see that word GOD!!)
So what am I supposed to do? Save me doc!
PS sorry for my bad English 🙁
Hi Chandler,
Nothing you have written sounds unusual for HOCD, which can be triggered by seemingly minor events such as seeing a friend and suddenly having an unwanted sexual thought about them. It is also not unusual for exposure assignments to provoke an increase in anxiety in the short term, as you experienced. I encourage you to take a longer-term approach to recovery, which includes accepting the short term spike in discomfort that comes with exposure. I encourage you to read our article about how exposure therapy works, and to seek out a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
i have a boyfriend of 5 years and i love him, but i cant get these thoughts out of my mind.
Hi Lebo,
Thanks for commenting. Your experience of five years of struggle is testimony to how much impact HOCD can have on one’s life. I encourage you to seek out Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) with an OCD specialist. Take care.
Dear Doc,
I have been dealing with HOCD for a few months now, which, during an intense episode of anxiety and panic some time ago, i developed intrusive visual thoughts regarding a friend.
Although now the visual thoughts are largely gone (I recognized them as a result of my mental checking compulsions and hence could stop them), I still face the challenge of feeling incredibly awkward and anxious around that person.
By simply being around him and trying not to do any mental checking and compulsions, I’ve managed to bring down my anxiety quite a bit, but I still can’t help but exhibit a lot of awkwardness and body vigilance around him. For example, I try very hard not to look at him during mealtimes, and when he is talking, I will suddenly shift my attention to him to try to appear normal. I can’t help but mentally review – things like did i look at him more longer than a nornal person should? I am afraid that he will pick up on all this awkward body language and actually think that am I gay or what. I know I shouldn’t, but ruminating over this train of thoughts freaks me out and continues to feed on my OCD.
Will this awkwardness in his presence ever go away? What if he notices my awkwardness and actually thinks I’m gay or what? This can spike me all over again. I am just afraid that this awkwardness will last forever, and I will never be ‘normal’ around this person again. The fear that he might think I’m gay really torments me and I still get a sick feeling in my stomach whenever I have a fleeting thought of this person.
Thanks!
Hi Roger,
The best solution to feeling awkward around this person is to spend time with him. You have already seen how spending time with him has reduced your anxiety, and I believe you will experience a similar reduction in awkwardness if you continue to spend time with him.
Conversely, if you continue to focus on trying not to feel awkward, you will likely continue to feel awl award. Attempting to control how you feel and think is fruitless and will actually make things worse for you. If you find your self mentally reviewing, then choose not to answer the questions you brain comes up with. Let those internal questions about your sexual orientation remain unanswered.
As for whether this person might think you are gay, my response is simple…so what? What he thinks of you is up to him. There is no reason to devote even one second of your time to questioning what others think about your sexual orientation. Let them think whatever they want.
I wrote on a here a few months ago and explained my background a little bit and being concerned that I didn’t care for having sex with my boyfriend but was always attracted to boys even as a little girl. Well, months later that boyfriend and I broke up. It just wasn’t working out.. After 3 years I realized I wanted more out of a relationship and he wasn’t the one. Of course that spiked my OCD but I dealt with it. Now I am talking to a new guy and my OCD has been out of control. I have really been enjoying my time being single so I don’t want to rush anything with this guy so I’m thinking maybe that’s why I’ve been so anxious? it all comes back to not wanting to have sex with him. it’s not that I don’t want to but it just makes me very anxious and nervous.
Maybe Ive never liked guys even though that’s what I thought. The thought of being with a girl makes me sick and I spend the majority of my day thinking and obsessing about it. Ironically, I’m concerned about being with this new guy because I met another guy months ago who I fell head over heels for. I know that should be enough to tell me I’m not gay but I just feel like I’m so far into the ocd that I can’t tell what are my real thoughts and what is ocd in my head. Please help
Hi Gabrielle,
Everything you write sounds like HOCD to me. People without OCD do not spend any time at all analyzing their thoughts in an effort to determine their sexual orientation. They just have whatever thoughts they have and live their life with out trying to figure out what their thoughts mean about their them. And the fact that you already have a history of OCD about this same issue suggests that there is nothing new about what you are experiencing now.
I encourage you to seek out therapy with a treatment provider who specializes in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for OCD. Take care.
Thank you so much. Also, today at the mall I noticed a girl and for some reason I just made myself think about kissing her. I do this sometimes when I am really stuck in this OCD cycle. But when I thought about it I didn’t completely hate it.. It was kind of like I thought I might like it but didn’t want to. And then I couldn’t picture myself actually doing it without feeling sick and anxious about it, but is that because I actually would enjoy kissing a girl or because OCD makes me feel that way? I just don’t know if its normal for people with HOCD to think like that.
Hi Gabrielle,
Yes, all of these questions and concerns are quite typical of HOCD. Your goal is to make no effort to answer these questions – to make no attempt to get certainty one way or the other. You don’t need certainty as to what these questions mean about you and your sexuality.
Hey! I’ve had anxiety since I was 6 or 7, Since then at about the age of 14 or 15 (when I entered my first relationship) i experienced major anxiety which seemed to focus on relationships and later my sexuality. Since then it has ‘waxed and waned’ as you call it.
I have the same symptoms as many people on here and I seek a lot of reassurance both from Google, family and friends.
My issue atm is that I’m scared I have a girl crush on this one certain girl I work with. Many people on here seem to worry about the gender itself but mine is recently about one person. I randomly once thought she was pretty (which I know is normal) and since then I’ve had absolute torment in my brain about it. When I’m not with her I force myself to think about her etc and test how I feel. When I’m with her at work I get scared that I’m attracted to her and fancy her and this makes me very anxious. I tend to have a bit of a twitch or shake my head to myself when I think of anxious thoughts. Another example is that I was invited to stay at hers after a party and declined as I was scared I’d feel attraction. I even said her name to someone at work earlier 🙁
Do I show signs of HOCD or am I in denial? 🙁
Hi Hannah,
I see nothing in your comment that indicates you are “in denial” (which is a spurious notion at best anyway). You are giving undo importance to a thought which you acknowledge is quite “normal” You have a pretty friend, and you noticed it. That is all that happened. If you were a lesbian, you would not be tormented by the idea of finding your friend attractive – you would be happily thinking of ways to develop a romantic and/or sexual relationship with her.
Thank you very much for responding!
Although I am grateful for your reply, my anxious brain won’t settle with your reply and I have continued to over analyse it all. For instance, I am now panicking that you said to Danielle previously that she ‘shows signs of HOCD’ and because you didn’t use them words for me, I am now worrying that I don’t show signs of it and that must mean that I am gay!
The issue regarding my friend has subsided.. and is onto a different thing now!
One thing I can absolutely say is that I don’t ever yearn to be with a girl- its definitely a fear based thing. All my thoughts I have is a hindrance on my life. However, I know this girl who dated boys before (which she said she enjoyed) but is now is way happier with a girl. And I know a few people who did the same! This panics me a lot, because although I love my boyfriend and I really enjoy our relationship more than I have in any previous relationships, I fear that ‘what if I am a lesbian but I just don’t know it yet because I’ve not experienced a female?!’ However no part of me wants to do that! That thought fears me a lot. I never feel 100% ‘right’ and I’m scared this the is the reason why!
Hi Hannah,
Parsing what I wrote in a previous comment to another person and comparing the language to a comment I made to you is a compulsion.
The fact that you know a few people who dated heterosexually, only to discover that they preferred to be with people of the same gender does not mean that you are gay for merely thinking about this possibility. And in any case, I could find you thousands (millions?) of people who experimented with homosexual activity and ultimately decided that they preferred to be with people of the opposite sex. You say that you love your boyfriend and that “no part” of you wants to be with a woman. I fail to see anything gay about that.
You do not need to be “100% right” about your sexual orientation. In fact, trying to gain certainty about sexual orientation is the central theme of HOCD.
Hello,
I am hoping you might be able to give some insight to whether this is OCD related. I am a 40 year old lesbian. 4 years ago, I had an affair w/ a married straight woman whom I had known in college (she was flirtatious w/me then.) We rekindled our friendship after many years & 1 night, she instigated sex. 4 months later, she said she loved me. Fast forward..she divorced & we became serious, even buying a home together. Unfortunately, she was afraid to be “out.” She did tell only a few close friends & her ex husband but no family & no other acquaintances. 2 months ago, she said she needed time & space & wants to end our romantic relationship because she needs to know for sure about her sexuality. She said she recently has gotten aroused when seeing men & I am the only woman she wants (she insists she does not look or think about women at all except me.) She doesn’t identify as lesbian because I’m the only woman she has had a relationship with (although had sex w/ women in college.) She is giving this recent arousal for men a lot of weight & is concerned that she has been w/me only because of past sexual trauma/bad male relationships.Throwing away our 4 years seems drastic. OCD?
Hi Sherree,
Thanks for commenting.
There is nothing in your description of your partner that suggests OCD. Her behavior suggests to me that she is bisexual and conflicted about her attraction to women. The only thing that even remotely hints at the possibility of OCD is her statement that she needs to be “certain” about her sexuality. But considering that there is nothing else here to suggest OCD, this sounds more like someone who is conflicted than someone who has OCD.
An alternate possibility is that your partner simply wanted out of the relationship, and this approach seemed to her to be a pretty rock solid exit strategy. People often come up with extreme exit strategies to justify that they want out. So it is possible that your partner’s approach is just a variant of “It’s not you, it’s me…”.
Yeah I totally see what you’re saying by it being a compulsion- now it’s written to me I can see how I’m being irrational!
My main issue is over attending to how I feel, or what I’m thinking. I’ve noticed a clear pattern that when I’m not over attending to anything, I don’t feel as anxious, and the whole thing lessens- however the thoughts are still there slightly which is when I begin to feel sort of in a ‘limbo’ state? Have you ever heard of this being a thing? As soon as I remotely think about what something meant, or why I thought that etc.. The whole thing begins to worsen again. The compulsions start like mental checking, googling etc and then I’m back in that loop hole of ‘needing’ to know!
I’ve also realised how if I’m feeling anxious in general, I tend to associate that feeling with worrying about my sexuality/relationship and then the thoughts begin again purely due to that initial association.
I’ve been far too scared to get a therapist about this incase they somehow make it worse, and I haven’t found any OCD therapists that focus on HOCD locally. Is there anything I can do until I find a therapist who can help me?
Thankyou for your replies, these articles are great!
Hi Hannah,
As you note, when you don’t over-attend to your thoughts and feelings, you are less anxious. This is not just a “thing” in OCD – it is at the very heart of OCD. If you stop over-attending, over-valuing, and over-responding to you thoughts and feelings, your OCD will likely decrease significantly. You don’t need to know why you had a particular thought or what it means about your sexual orientation. This idea that one needs to know these things is also at the heart of OCD. You do not need to know.
Likewise, the fear of getting into therapy is common for people with OCD. If you had broken arm, would you fear going to an orthopedic surgeon to have the bone set? The only reason you should be afraid of therapy is if you seek treatment with a therapist who does not specialize in treating OCD, as they will not have a clue how to treat your symptoms. I encourage you to seek treatment with an OCD specialist.
I don´t know if I’m gay or bi or whatever. I am 26 years old and I’m a virgin. I think I never felt really in love with no one.
I visit gay porn websites for many many years, since my early adolescence. I get very aroused and I feel a terrible urge to go there. I also get aroused with straight porn and even lesbian porn but I feel anxious if I am near the porn world because I know the gay porn is a click away (and straight porn has men in it, so that makes me anxious).
I think I am addicted to gay porn and that I think that I could get some answers from there (although I now know I can’t). I feel very upset, angry, guilty, sad and depressed after watching gay porn because I know I shouldn’t. The consequences are terrible. Besides the emotional consequences I described, I feel like I don’t want to leave my house, connect with people (specially males) or do anything, basically. In my real life, I was always closer to women, and I sometimes am called gay for my mannerisms. I think I am afraid of men because of the judgements they could make (I was bullied – not harshly though – when I was younger).
I hope you could help me figuring out what I could do to stop watching porn.
Hi Pedro,
I also don’t know if you are “gay or bi or whatever”…and I don’t think it matters. You do not need to have a label or a category for for your sexuality.
As for being aroused by gay porn, it is worth noting that you also report being aroused by straight porn and lesbian porn. The bottom line is that humans get aroused by pornography. We like to see other people being sexual. Yet you only get “upset, angry, guilty, sad and depressed” about being aroused by gay porn, and report that you know you “shouldn’t” watch gay porn. Who says you shouldn’t? There is nothing innately wrong with gay porn as opposed to straight porn. It sounds to me like the real problem is not that you are aroused by gay porn, but that you have a preconceived notion that gay porn is “bad”, or that being gay would be “bad”.
As for whether you are “addicted to gay porn”, it seems quite possible that you may have a problem with sexual compulsivity. As for how you can stop watching porn, I believe you have more control than you think. You can choose not to go to porn sites. You are not powerless in this matter. Yes, you may initially find it difficult to resist the urge to watch porn, but I am confident that you have the ability to choose to feel uncomfortable rather than watching porn. If you do not feel you can do this on your own, then I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in compulsive sexuality.
Hi Tom,
It’s Pedro again, 6 months later. I have been seeing a second therapist for the past year, who is specialised in sexuality. I think she is very good but I many times question the efficacy of the therapeutic process.
Well, I would like to have your opinion on what she said to me on our last consultation, which left me very confused. She said that I have been training to become homosexual through the heavy visualisation and masturbation to gay porn. She thinks that its much more probable that I feel sexually aroused by men in real life than by women, although that doesn’t imply also feeling passionate about or in love with those men or women.
I recon my sexuality is all messed up. On the one hand, I don’t want to go against my natural instincts but, on the other hand, I don’t want to fuel more HOCD-related issues. Do you understand what I mean?
Thank you for all your help and for helping others that are dealing with these issues. You are amazing at what you do!
Pedro,
Since I have never met you and have not been the therapist who is treating you, I do not feel it would be appropriate for me to judge the accuracy of your therapist’s comments. That said, if you have HOCD, seeing a sex therapist is a probably a complete waste of time that is likely to create more confusion. The chances that your sex therapist understands HOCD are slim at best, and I strongly encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), as this is the therapy that has been found by research to be the most effective treatment for OCD.
Hi Tom,
It’s me again, sorry for bothering you again.
I feel stuck in life. “All” my friends think I’m gay and I feel like i have to come out somehow someday. I am always looking for men on the street and sometimes I feel sexual attraction always accompanied by fear. I don’t know which came first and originated the other. All I know is that I have a fear for men because they mean judgement/bullying/non-acceptance to me.
I am still watching gay porn in a compulsive way (looking for answers) and feel depressed afterwards. Professionally, I also feel lost and I don’t know my purpose in life and have no goals.
I don’t feel comfortable wearing fashionable clothes because I think I will show off (in a gay manner) and grab others’ attention. I am very inside my head and fell very hopeless regarding my life in general.
I think I have internalised homophobia but I am totally fine with others being gay. I don’t feel passionate about people or most things. I think I have built a defensive wall.
What do you think I should do?
Thank you so much in advance.
Pedro
Pedro,
You asked for my advice, so here it is:
1) Stop watching gay porn. You admit you are doing it as a compulsion in an effort to get “answers”. This is making things worse, not better. If it worked, you would have found the “answer” by now. It isn’t working and it never will.
2) If you are still seeing a sex therapist instead of an OCD therapist, I encourage you to stop wasting your time and money. A sex therapist is unlikely to have any understanding of how to effectively treat HOCD.
3) Stop caring about what other people think of you. If others think you are gay, that is not your business.
Hello Tom:
I am a female in my early 20s, who had never questioned my sexuality until last October. I began watching pornography for the first time last summer and found that I enjoyed/was aroused by heterosexual, gay and lesbian porn. This didn’t bother me for months, and then one day, I began wondering if I was a lesbian.
I have never had same sex attractions or “crushes” on any females, but now, the majority of my fantasies are same sex. I enjoy these fantasies, which causes great anxiety. I wish that I did not.
In addition to the fantasies, I now get anxious whenever I hear people say, “Be who you are.” or “Do what makes you happy.” Those phrases make me so uncomfortable/anxious, because what if I’m “denying” myself happiness by looking for a male as my spouse. What if I’m actually a lesbian, and I’m not being “true to myself” or being “who I really am”?
I took the HOCD quiz and scored a 17. I want to believe this is OCD, and that I’m not a lesbian. I’m just so scared that I’m actually a lesbian. After introducing pornography to my life, it’s like the lines have been completely blurred.
I just desperately want to know my sexuality.
Alex,
Human beings (especially human beings in their early 20’s) are really interested in and turned on by sexual information. The fact that you get turned on by lesbian porn does not make you a lesbian. You mention that you also get turned on by straight porn as well as gay porn (by which, I assume you mean gay male porn). Hence, if merely getting turned on by a particular type of porn were an automatic indicator of one’s sexuality, you would apparently be a a straight woman, a gay woman, and a gay man all at once! That would be quite an accomplishment.
The fact that you checked off 17 items on our HOCD test strongly suggests that you have HOCD. Likewise, being afraid of being a lesbian suggests that you are not a lesbian, but rather a straight woman with HOCD (lesbians are not afraid of being lesbians). And your analysis of your thoughts and fantasizes is itself suggestive of HOCD, as straight and gay people without HOCD spend exactly zero minutes analyzing their sexual orientation.
Nobody needs to “know” their sexual orientation with certainty. Accept uncertainty and you will be rewarded with far less concern about something that does not require analysis or certainty.
Hi,
Reading and comparing the ‘symptoms’ from the comments here, plus checking this website to see the advices whenever im having an anxiety attack, I can say that is my need for compulsive rechecking, and further clarifies that I have HOCD. Plus I scored really high on the test.
I get reassurance and feel relief from having the same symptoms with other posters here. To be honest, im so scared at the prospect of being a Lesbian. At the mere sight of the word, I get scared and thus anxiety begins. I’ve done a lot of things to avoid being associated with the word. I cant even type it again. Even the word Bisexual. Anything that has got to do with ‘Bi’ I got fear and its really intense. As I am majoring in Psychology I know the importance of seeing a therapist, having someone to help you. But the thing is now, I cant do that because im afraid it might get worse. My country is quite conservative and im afraid I might just get branded with being a ‘L’ or a ‘Bi/. God, by the mere thought of it im scared.
Can you please help with an alternate way? Please
Hi Kim,
I can’t provide a diagnosis via this blog, but I can say that the symptoms you describe sound very much like HOCD. I’m not sure why you think you will get worse with treatment, but I certainly understand that there are some cultures around the world in which homosexuality and bisexuality are completely unacceptable.
As for “alternate” forms of treatment other than seeking care in your home country, we can offer you online therapy via webcam. I encourage you to read the section on our website about online therapy for OCD.
Firstly, this is the best article I have read about HOCD. And it`s also great you have included gay people who suffer from it. Thank you so much. I’m a gay woman engaged to my girlfriend of 3 years, and HOCD makes me feel so sick and anxious most of the time.
One month ago, I woke up after having a dream with a guy that was flirting with me. I kept thinking about it, and thinking, and my anxiety was building up. I felt so ashamed and checked out literally every guy to check my reactions. Soon I could not listen to any songs, read, watch a film or leave our home due to my fear and anxiety.
I started initiating kissing and sex more with my girlfriend to check my arousal. I don`t want to be bi/hetero, I don`t want to hurt my girl and I don`t want to be with a man and have a husband. These thoughts make me sick.
I expose myself everyday and try not to engage in any mental or physical compulsion. But what would be the best method when a spike comes up? Should I keep looking at the guy or hetero couple and do/think nothing? Should I look at them once and do nothing? Should I tell myself that I may be bi and that I will never know for sure? Even if I don`t want to be? Should I tell my gay girlfriend about this?
Hi Rachael,
The first thing you should do is stop analyzing your thoughts, as this will only lead to more doubt. Our brains come up with all sorts of unwanted thoughts, and the best option is to accept their presence without doing anything about them. That includes not trying to figure out what they mean, and it also includes not changing our behaviors. In your case that means that you should return to listening to songs, reading, and watching tv/movies. It also means that you should stop initiating sexual contact with your girlfriend for the sole purpose of testing for arousal, and that you should stop checking out guys and hetero couples in order to see how you think/feel.
As for telling your girlfriend about what you are experiencing, you need to base that decision on whether or not you believe she would be able to handle the information. Nobody likes to hear, “Honey, I may not really be all that into you because I am doubting my sexual orientation”. If you elect to discuss the matter with her, you should initiate a discussion about HOCD so that she understands the context of your concerns. Perhaps a good part of discussing the issue would be to show her our series of articles on HOCD.
I’ve been suffering since I was a teenager with intrusive/unwanted images. In my 20’s, the OCD wasn’t as bad as I was enjoying being single, attractive, guys/dating. There were always strange images in my mind, but none that took over my whole world as w/ my teenage years and now currently in my early thirties. As a teenager, I was haunted with thoughts of being violent and being gay. Now in my early thirties, I’m worse than ever. The OCD kicked in after the birth of my daughter 2 years ago. Thoughts that I was a horrible mother, or that I would harm my daughter played over and over again. HOCD seemed to kick in after a period of verbal abuse from my husband. Being gay became the reason feelings for my husband went down the tubes. These thoughts occupy 90% of every day and every woman I see, my mind tells me, “you’re attracted to” and I feel shamed and gross. I avoid TV, facebook, hate going to the store, avoid interaction with other females. I’m in complete misery!! When I think about being in a relationship with a woman I just can’t, but still I can’t let the thought go. I live in a rural area, and my therapist doesn’t seem to grasp that I might have ocd. Thoughts?
Hi Erin,
Thanks for your comment.
It sounds like you have been experiencing a number of Pure O subtypes, especially HOCD and Harm OCD. Unfortunately, it is extremely common for people with OCD to struggle with more than one variant.
Also, you suggest that your HOCD thoughts are the reason your feelings for your husband “went down the tubes”. While it is quite common for HOCD thoughts to interfere with a relationship, there may be additional factors for your loss of feelings for your husband, specifically his verbal abuse.
It is also worth noting that avoiding TV, Facebook, going to the store, and interactions with other women are all common examples of compulsions, and these behaviors will make things worse for you.
The bottom line is that you appear to be facing various OCD thoughts, along with relationship issues that would upset most people, including those who don’t have OCD. Unfortunately, as you have already learned, many therapists (most actually) are pretty clueless about OCD and how to treat it effectively. I encourage you to seek out treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD. If you are comfortable with online treatment, we can be reached via our website at https://ocdla.com/.
Take care.
Hi I don’t know if I have hocd or not, I done the free test and checked off around 23-24 items , still I’m not sure though I can’t live like this anymore I feel tormented and feel I have to be alone forever. I keep feeling stressed out all day everyday and can’t get peace at anytime I just want to be happy, I’ve suffered this since a young age I am now 26 , the thing that really confuses me is I get thoughts that I start thinking I enjoy these fantasies so I stress more and repeat the ritual in my head over and over to see if I get aroused by it in which I always end up feeling worse, I only fancy women and don’t fancy men but seem fixated on penises and that I must enjoy the thoughts but on the other hand I love women and don’t want to spend my life with a man and would never ever want to hold hands or kiss one, I’m sorry about going on about this but I just can’t stop thinking about it, I worry about everything and I mean everything from health to money to being like this forever but it’s the hocd if it is that that gets me down the most, I want to be with a woman but I feel with these thoughts that I am going to just have to be gay to somehow have a life that I don’t want
Andrew,
A few thoughts…
This all sounds like textbook HOCD, including the part about stressing out that you may actually enjoy these thoughts. If you enjoyed these thoughts, they wouldn’t be causing you stress – you would be enjoying them!
Doing mental rituals to test for arousal is a classic HOCD compulsion. Gay guys are not afraid of being aroused by men, and they don’t mentally test themselves to see if they are aroused by men.
You say you only fancy women, would never want to kiss or hold hands with a man, and that you want to be with a woman. That sounds pretty straight to me.
You scored 24 out of a possible 28 on our online HOCD test. That sounds like HOCD to me.
This is an excellent article.
I’ve had this form of OCD for nearly eleven years. Prior to this, I had various other forms of OCD. It’s a strange one, since I’ve never had anything against homosexuals and have always been very supportive of gay rights. Prior to this triggering, I was always convinced of my heterosexuality. This OCD triggered after seeing a naked man and having an unusual panic attack and then thinking that I may have turned gay. Also, not long after, some girls asked me at school if I was gay. Ever since then, I’ve had the fear that others may think I’m gay as well as doubting the confidence in my heterosexuality.
I’ve watched gay porn every day for over a year and regularly measure my groin. My penis is usually always flaccid and I’ve never been aroused by it, but I keep feeling the need to check. Unfortunately, watching so much gay porn caused me to become triggered by oral sex thoughts. I constantly have the fear I will lose control and perform oral sex on every man I come across. Such thoughts are alien to me and I never had them before watching so much gay porn.
Is the solution to stop watching gay porn? Every time I watch it, the oral sex thoughts get worse
Craig,
First off, let me note that people don’t “turn gay” when they see someone naked. If that were the case, then every man at my gym would be gay, as we all see each other naked in the men’s locker room. And all the women would also be gay, as they see each other naked in the women’s locker room.
Second, it is important to note that what other people think of your sexual orientation is irrelevant. Someone thinking you may be gay doesn’t mean you are gay.
Third, allow me to note that your daily habit of watching gay porn and measuring your penis in an effort to test for arousal is the exact wrong thing to do. This is a compulsion that will only perpetuate and exacerbate your obsessions. I’m not surprised that you now have have obsessions about oral sex as you have likely watched an awful lot of male-on-male blow jobs over the past year.
That said, I am sincerely surprised that you have never once experienced any arousal / penis enlargement while watching gay porn every day for the past year. I would think that at some point you would experience some arousal / penis enlargement regardless of what you were watching. Even just watching paint dry or clouds moving across the sky every day for a year would likely be paired with some arousal at some point, just out of chance if nothing else.
So yes, I think you should stop watching gay porn and stop doing any other behaviors which you are doing in an effort to ascertain if you are gay.
Intrusive thoughts have been plaguing my mind for the past two months, and one of the more recent ones as well as the one I am most afraid of is the thought that I might actually be a lesbian. I have been in a committed relationship with my boyfriend for almost two years now and I have never questioned whether I was gay, and I have never had a problem sexually with him until I started stressing over whether I might be gay or not. We are in a long distance relationship right now and so I try to not pay attention to other guys at school, and one day it just hit me that I might be a lesbian because I have gotten so used to not noticing guys and now I am utterly terrified that that is true. I have always had crushes on guys since the time that I was in middle school. Now I have convinced myself that I do not have HOCD, but that I am just secretly gay and I can’t come to terms with myself, no matter how many guys I have liked in the past or that I love my boyfriend. What can I do? Am I really gay? It is really taking a toll on my relationship and I don’t want to lose the one person I care about the most and I am terrified and hate myself for even wondering if I am gay.
Hi Alyssa,
You mention numerous things that strongly suggest you are straight, specifically:
~ You are in a committed sexual relationship with a man
~ You have always had crushes on guys
~ You are “utterly terrified” by the idea of being gay
~ You hate yourself for even thinking you may be gay
The only thing you can say that even remotely suggests you might be gay is that this unexpected thought just popped into your head one day. But all sorts of weird thoughts pop into our heads everyday that are not true. The appearance of thought doesn’t mean that the thought is accurate or meaningful. It just means you had a thought.
You ask what you can do about this issue, and my suggestion is simple: seek out help with a therapist who specializes in HOCD treatment.
I don’t know if I’m gay or in denial. I have had harm ocd right before HOCD kicked in (thought this might be important) I think this “HOCD” started when I was a child. I vaguely remember once I was riding on the same bike as my friend and my penis touched his back/butt and I thought to myself “did I just enjoy that?” and that’s where I think it started. I remember sitting in my 4th grade class being filled with anxiety unsure if I was straight and wishing I had the answer (I had harm ocd back then too). Recently my Harm ocd acted up, then cooled down and “HOCD” ensued. I remember reading about my Harm ocd and saw something about HOCD and though to myself “How could you question that? If you were gay, you’d just know” and here I am now, how ironic. I don’t know if I have ever had a crush on a guy, I have had strong feelings of admiration, but not like “crushes” I’ve had on girls. I have always wanted a girlfriend and all gay thoughts scared the hell out of me, but I feel like deep down I might be just be fighting how I really feel. I don’t think I find gay porn arousing, it usually triggers alot of anxiety but my mind tells me that this is what I want. I have love a girl in the past
Hi Very Confused,
If you read the comments posted in response to our various articles about HOCD, you will see that many people write that they are concerned that they don’t know if they have HOCD, or are just in denial. I see nothing in your comment that suggests that you are in denial (which is a specious concept to begin with). You are not “fighting what you really feel” – you are fighting OCD.
I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in the treatment of HOCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
Thank you for the reply Dr. there is just one thing that I fear may have some importance. I have always been curious as to how I “measure up” to other guys. I think the majority of this stemmed from a rumor my ‘friend’ spread about me in 9th grade about how I have a small penis (ever since then I have been extremely self-conscious and became deathly afraid of becoming intimate with a women for fear she’d laugh at me), but I think there might have been some underlying curiosity before that. Whenever I would see an image of an erect penis, I would become aroused. At first this did not bother me because I thought that I was becoming erect to look at the differences in sizes or I was becoming erect because, well that image is a sexually stimulating image that we associate with sex (I don’t mean gay sex). But now looking at this problem I had through an HOCD lens, I fear that the only possible explanation for my arousal is that I am in fact gay. After reading your work on how some guys just find penises as “conceptually activating” (I think those were your words) this calmed me down but I still cant help but worry that there was an underlying homosexual intention.
Very Confused,
As with your previous comment, I see nothing in here that suggests anything other than HOCD. You list a number of reasons why your penis might sometimes get hard, and then state that you can only think of one reason. Trying figure out why one gets aroused is a compulsion and a waste of time. You do not need to figure out why your penis sometimes get hard in unexpected situations. Stop looking for reasons and just accept that your penis is doing what penis are designed to do, which is to get hard.
Hello Doctor,
While I was researching topics related to HOCD and sexuality, I came across this. “Homosexuality is seen by Freud as a genital fixation.” I feel absolutely devastated. Considering I have been curious about other peoples penises before and to some extent maybe even now, I feel like this is proof that I am gay. I have heard that a lot of Freuds work was proven untrue. Is this example true? I know I don’t want to ever be with a man but I can’t help but feel like this is definitive proof that I am not straight. I am so upset that he used the word “fixation” because I feel like that may be an accurate word to describe my situation. I have hit almost all symptoms of HOCD and have had a long history of OCD related issues in the past, and this fact has been helping me so much through this “HOCD” I have, and this single sentence has just destroyed me. Please help me I don’t know what to do anymore, I feel as if one of the most influential psychologists in history has just told me that I was gay. Do you have any input doctor, I am literally looking for any piece of information to be my saving grace and prove that I am suffering from HOCD. I don’t know what to do anymore.
Very confused,
Just because Freud wrote something a hundred years ago doesn’t mean it’s true. In fact, much of what Freud wrote was utter nonsense. It was just his ill-informed opinions, for which he had no evidence. In other words, he was just making stuff up!
You say you don’t know what to do, so I will tell you what to do…
Stop looking for evidence that proves or disproves your sexual orientation. People without OCD do not spend any time at all trying to figure out which gender they want to have sex with. Your problem is not your sexual orientation, it is your OCD. Accept that you have OCD, and that your OCD leads you to take seriously thoughts that people without OCD do not take seriously (even though they have similar thoughts). Then do exactly what you would do if you didn’t have OCD.
Hello Doctor,
There is something that is bothering me that I hope you can clarify. When I first get an HOCD thought about me and another man being intimate, my initial reactions are things such as fear, anxiety/stress, sadness, and anger (anger that I am having this thought and the possibility that it may represent my true desire). But sometimes I try and force myself to enjoy the thought to see if there is any possibility that on some level I actually enjoy the thought, I fear that sometimes I AM actually enjoying the thought. I don’t get that primal lust feeling that I get when I think about women, but I fear that I may be experiencing some form of enjoyment. On an unrelated note, I tend to put myself into “what if” scenarios all the time, for example I would ask myself “What would you do if you walked into your room and there was a naked man laying there” My initial response is always something along the lines of run out of the room but my mind tells me that if this scenario were ever to come true, that I would want to be with the man. Does this sound like HOCD to you? I took your test multiple times and my scores range from about 17-21. I really don’t want to find out I’m gay.
Hi Bubba,
A few thoughts….
1) You say you experience a feeling of “primal lust” when you think about sex with women, and that you experience “fear, anxiety/stress, sadness, and anger” when you think about sex with men. That sounds pretty straight to me.
2) Trying to force yourself to enjoy a gay thought in order to see if you enjoy it is a checking compulsion, not to mention innately confusing. Of course you are confused – after all you are purposely trying to enjoy the thought, and then upset that you are enjoying it. So stop trying to enjoy it and just let yourself have the initial thought without trying to enjoy it.
3) All that “what if…” thinking is textbook OCD.
4) Taking our free online HOCD test multiple times is a compulsion that is not helping. The results are not likely to change, and I encourage your to stop taking the test.
Thank you doctor, I just have one last question. When I first get a homosexual thought, my mind is automatically depicting it as an enjoyable experience, like something that I would want to take part in. This causes me great distress because in reality I don’t enjoy thinking about the thought (for example, my initial response is never thinking something like “oh yea, I want that”), but I have to keep thinking about the thought in order to test what type of feelings and emotions ensue. Because my mind is trying to push the thought on me as something that I’d like (even though I don’t think I would ever would) it has made me fear that like I said before there is a subconscious part of me enjoying the though. Is this common in HOCD?
Hi Bubba,
Yes this is quite common in ROCD. The problem is not the thought but rather your compulsive response to it. You acknowledge that you purposely continue thinking about the thought “in order to test what type of feelings and emotions ensue”. This is a compulsion. So long as you continue to test yourself to see if you like the thoughts, you will make things worse.
A better response is to accept that you have unwanted thoughts, without taking them seriously, and without testing to see if you like them.
Today I was trying to masturbate to gay porn to prove to myself that I did not like it, and I came across this one scene where I think that I found it pleasurable (or at least more pleasurable than the other scenes). I got very scared and clicked off the scene and took a few deep breaths and then went back to see it to try and see if it was just a fluke that I found it pleasurable, when I went back to the same scene I still did not enjoy thinking about the scene but my penis felt like it was about to ejaculate thinking about the scene. I went and masturbated to straight porn to ease my stress then went back again to look at the scene and found it much, much less pleasurable to look at. Also the type of guy in the scene was the type of guy that makes my HOCD the worst (when the person is handsome and around my age.) Looking back at the scene now, I am sure it’s nothing that I would ever actually be interested in participating in (at least I think so). Is this type of behavior more frequent in people with HOCD or gay people? Is it normal in HOCD to find that a certain type of people that you deem more “attractive” than others? Does this sound like spectrum ocd, classic hocd, or gay?
Hi Sadness,
A few thoughts…
1) Masturbating to gay porn to see if you like it is pretty much guaranteed to backfire. If you masturbate to anything, you are going to like it. Try masturbating to paint drying and I predict you will get sexually aroused as you rub your self.
2) Analyzing and comparing your arousal in response to different porn scenes is a checking compulsion that will not help.
3) Of course your penis felt like you were going to ejaculate…you were masturbating!
4) Of course you found the attractive guy more attractive…he was more attractive. Very few people get more aroused by unattractive people than they do by attractive people.
5) Yes, wondering about your sexual arousal while masturbating as you look at attractive naked people having sex is normal for HOCD. Your sexual arousal was occurring in that context precisely because you were masturbating while looking at attractive people having sex. That said, trying to discern what sub-type of HOCD you were experiencing seems like a compulsion. No possible good can come from getting an answer to that question.
Since last week i’m worrying about my sexuality, i am scared to be gay. At first I thought that the idea was stupid, but the more i thought about it the more i started to “try new things”.For exemple i felt the obligation to test my penis thinking about gay stuff and straight stuff, i simply looked at my penis to see if i would see any variation in it’s size while thinking about gay stuff. At first straight stuff made my penis grow, and gay stuff made the opposite. But the more i tried this, the less it was effective, to the point where i slowly started to lose all sexual arousal towards girls.Then one time i felt like what i like to call “The beginning of an erection” thinking about gay stuff, especially penetration.
So to be sure, i tried gay porn and first it didn’t do anything but then i felt that start of erection. Now i CANNOT think about anything else and i don’t feel any sexual arousal towards girl anymore and it freaks me out, especially since seeing a naked boy sometimes triggers that beggining of erection. I am scared to lie to myself about my sexuality and it’s ruining my life. I do not know what i like and what i don’t like anymore I need help, my life is a nightmare.
Hi Axel,
Having unexpected thoughts about one’s sexual orientation is not unusual. The problem is not the thoughts, but your reaction to them. You note that you have been “testing” your penis by thinking about “gay stuff”, and more recently by watching gay porn. This testing is a compulsion which, as you also note, initially provided you with reassurance. But repeated compulsions only provide short-term relief, and in the long-term they cause a worsening of obsessions. All of this is par for the course for OCD.
A better approach would be to immediately stop testing yourself, and to instead accept the presence of these unwanted thoughts, without taking them seriously, and without trying to resolve them in any way. If you truly accept the existence of these thoughts, they will cease to be so threatening. After all, they are just thoughts.
Please answer, it’s my last question.
So the thing is that i feel that i can’t do anything about testing myself, sometimes i can be in a state of mind where i’m 100% sure i won’t test my self but at the end i do it anyway.
I’ve tried to relax, doing activities but i just can’t stop thinking about it.
What do you think about the fact that i don’t get sexual arrousal towards girls anymore ?
I’ve always been 100% into girls, i fell in love a lot of times and even recently, but the fact that i don’t get sexual arrousal towards girls anymore really freaks me out.Yesterday, after watching gay porn while masturbating myself to see if i would get an erection i tried to tell my self that i don’t care about being gay.So i got this start of erection, and then switched to straight porn because i didn’t want to ejaculate on gay porn.
After that it was like i was “feeling” gay, but at the same time i didn’t believe it, so all yesterday night i was telling to myself “yes i am gay, the fact that i don’t get arrousal with girls and that i feel these sensations on my penis while thinking/watching gay stuff can only mean that i am gay.”
I don’t know what to think anymore, gay porn doesn’t disgust me.
Axel,
My response remains the same. Stop testing yourself by watching gay porn and masturbating to see if you get aroused by it. If you masturbate to anything you penis will get aroused. Penises like attention, and if you give attention to yours, it will respond as it designed to respond – with arousal.
Additionally, you say “can’t do anything about testing” yourself, which is nonsense. Of course you can do something – you can NOT look at gay porn, and you can NOT rub your penis. Your masturbation is a voluntary behavior. You may not like the anxiety of NOT testing, but that is what you need to do.
Today I was masturbating to a straight fantasy then my mind was compelled to think of a gay fantasy and masturbate to that and I went to masturbate to the gay fantasy in hope that I would hate it. I tried masturbating to the gay fantasy and didn’t like it but as I was nearing ejaculation, I felt as if I was actually beginning to enjoy the thought. I don’t know if this was my mind messing with me or I actually was enjoying the thought or maybe I was just enjoying the fact that I was masturbating. I am terrified that I was actually enjoying the thought but maybe my mind was just enjoying it because I was masturbating and close to ejaculating. I have never masturbated to a gay fantasy (for pleasure) in the past but I fear that I was actually enjoying this one and this means that if I masturbated to another I would like it. Also, I tend to get anxiety spikes when I find another male “attractive” and I tend to fixate on them while I test myself and eventually the cycle repeats and I fixate on someone else and the previous person does not interest me like they used to. Does this happen a lot in HOCD? Does this mean my thought are ego-syntonic and I’m truly gay on some subconscious level?
Timmy,
It’s not exactly a surprise that you were enjoying masturbation as you were approaching ejaculation. You could have been masturbating while thinking of a stapler and you would have enjoyed that too.
The bottom line is that people like orgasms, regardless of what the content is of their masturbatory fantasies. Your experience does not mean you are gay or that this was an ego-syntonic thought – it means you were masturbating and that your penis is working normally.
Hi,
I’ve written on here before but recently my OCD has spiked again. Of course my mind is running crazy with thoughts nonstop. One thing that I’ve been seriously thinking about is how some people do not realize they are gay until later in life. The thought of that gives me severe anxiety that that could possibly be me. I am a 21 year old girl and have always had boyfriends and been attracted to guys.. at least I think I am. Some guys I really like while there are some that I haven’t had a strong connection with. That always leaves me feeling like I could be gay, even though I know that’s not a real reason to believe that. However, I don’t really know if it is because of my OCD or just because, but sometimes I get more aroused seeing a naked woman rather than a naked man. I’ve never wanted to have sex with a girl but being “turned on” by the female body sometimes scares me to my core. I know it’s not a big deal and I always think that I just compare the naked female body to myself being naked and wanting to have a sex with a man and that’s why I get aroused by it. But I’ve been constantly worrying that maybe that means I am actually gay and just in denial about it. How can I tell?
Hi Gabrielle,
A few thoughts…
1) It is normal for OCD symptoms to wax and wane – to spike at times and to be relatively quiet at other times.
2) The fear that one might not realize until later in life that they are gay is a very common HOCD thought. But thoughts are just thoughts. Nothing you have written (i.e, that you have always had boyfriends and been attracted to guys) suggests you are gay.
3) The fact that you have had a “strong connection” to some guys, but not to others, does not indicate that you are gay – it indicates that you like some guys, but not all guys.
4) There is nothing “wrong” or “gay” about finding women attractive. Humans find pretty much anything sexual to be arousing, and seeing an attractive naked body of either gender is likely to lead you to think about sex.
5) You don’t need to be able to know with certainty if you are straight or “gay and just in denial about it” – you need to accept that your brain (like everybody’s brain) comes up with some unexpected weird thoughts, and to not automatically assume that these thoughts are important or meaningful.
Tom,
Thank you so much. The one thing that is confusing for me is that I’ve read that people with HOCD have these unwanted gay thoughts. They do not like these thoughts. But gay people who have not come out (not HOCD) have gay thoughts that are also unwanted, but they are unwanted because they enjoy these thoughts but don’t want to enjoy them.
For me, I get these unwanted gay thoughts and when I picture myself with another girl or put myself in a same sex fantasy, I don’t enjoy it and it gives me anxiety. But at the same time, like I’ve mentioned I will see a naked female or a female doing something “sexual” or sometimes lesbian porn and become aroused by it. And I do not want to be aroused by it. So to me, this sounds like a person who has not accepted their sexual orientation yet. The thought is extremely disturbing to me. I guess to sum up, I worry that my gay thoughts are not entirely unwanted, but I just don’t want them because I like them and don’t want to like them. Honestly I know that’s confusing but I feel like I read or hear things sometimes that sounds like maybe I don’t have HOCD and that makes my thoughts worse.
Gabrielle,
You are thinking way too much about these thoughts. It also sounds like you are reading way too much about sexual orientation.
The bottom line is this:
Humans enjoy sex and are turned on by it. So being aroused when seeing a naked woman (especially a naked woman having sex) sounds pretty normal.
The fact that you are disturbed by the idea of being gay strongly suggests that you are not gay.
The fact that you get anxious when you think about sex with a woman is a pretty strong indicator that you are not gay.
Stop trying to figure out if you are gay or if you enjoy your thoughts or whatever. Instead, accept that you have OCD and that your brain is coming up with thoughts that you are obsessing about.
Thank you so much, Tom. I definitely agree with you. However, a guy that I am talking to now (who I really, really like) made a comment during a fight we were in eluding to the fact that he thought I would hook up with “the girl” that was possibly coming to his house when I said I was worried about him doing so. He said it jokingly. I don’t know if he was just getting defensive or annoyed at the fact that I was mad about it. (We’re in a weird noncomitted, long distance thing for now.) or he if really thinks I would do that.
The only reason I could see him saying that is if deep down he had vibes that I’m gay. And that’s one of my biggest fears that the guy I’m talking to suspects that I’m gay. I just don’t think anyone would make that type of comment if some part of them didn’t think it was true. I feel like it’s a sign telling me that deep down I am really gay. It’s scaring me. I feel like if I bring it up to him it just makes me sound defensive, which is how people act when something is the truth.
Gabrielle,
Three things…
1) Just because a guy makes a joke doesn’t mean he has some secret insight into your hidden sexuality. Sometimes a joke is just a joke.
2) Being in this “weird noncomitted, long distance thing” doesn’t sound like it is a very good idea for you. On that note, why on earth would he be telling you about some other woman coming over to his house! He sounds like a guy who is trying to ensure that you know that he is not serious about you.
3) You say you cannot think of any reason that he would make this joke other than that he has some special insight into your secret lesbianism. I can thing of many, including that he is trying to keep you at a distance. Again, why is he telling you about other women, and making jokes about it?
Firstly, I want to say this article was exceptional at explaining HOCD and how it works. I relate to many of the comments I have read on here as well and have found your replies to be just helpful as the article. Thank you for all the effort you put into your field that is evident in this webpage alone.
You may have already answered this question somewhere in the comments but I have not seen it yet. How can one tell the difference between suffering from HOCD and being straight from actually being gay and using HOCD as a denial mechanism. I can not get past this idea that I am so in denial that I have create HOCD in my mind to trick myself into believing I am straight with HOCD and not gay.
Thanks
Hi Brad,
The question “is this HOCD or am I in denial” is extraordinarily common in HOCD. And you describe the issue perfectly when you write that you are afraid that you are so deep into denial that your mind has resorted to tricking you into believing you have HOCD in an effort to deny your true sexual orientation. The problem with this line of thinking is that this whole idea of denial is mostly nonsense. To read more on this, I encourage you to read our article Doubt, Denial and OCD.
I have suffered from HOCD for nearly two years. Never once doubted my sexuality in my youth, teens, or adulthood but in my mid-20s, I was harassed by a lesbian coworker for 6 months and one day she made a joke about my “closed” sexuality, and all the intrusive thoughts started beginning with “Could I be and not know it? Do other people think I am? I never thought of girls that way. Can your sexuality change?” A year and a half later, I began ERP, but now I’m finding the lack of anxiety scary…as if by not feeling nervous, I’ve either “accepted the truth” or I’m making myself vulnerable to the possibility of what I’m scared of coming true – I don’t want it to be true! In fact, what I want most is the unshakeable confidence in my heterosexuality that I had before this all started. I know this is probably the “backdoor spike,” but then I get doubts and fears that it’s NOT a backdoor spike. It actually sent me into a horrible lapse in my recovery just before Christmas. Is it strange to say I don’t want to let go of the anxiety because I’m terrified of the risk I’m at otherwise? How do people overcome the backdoor spike threat?
Hi Jennifer,
Everything you write is a perfect description of a backdoor spike. You can learn more about this in our articles HOCD / Gay OCD: Challenges to Treatment.
You ask “How do people overcome the backdoor spike threat?”, and my first response is that there is no threat. Thoughts are not threats – they are just thoughts. Also, I don’t suggest you try to “overcome” these thoughts, but rather that you learn to more effectively respond to the thoughts by: a) recognizing that they are a very common HOCD fear, and; b) accepting their presence just as you should accept the presence of all other unwanted thoughts that your OCD presents to you.
Thank you, Tom. I do have one follow up question related to my recovery. While I have spent a great deal of time over-attending to thoughts about women throughout HOCD, and I understand the effects of that, a recent complication I struggle with, in addition to the backdoor spike, is what FEELS like a diminished attraction for men. For example, I’ll see an attractive guy on the subway and before HOCD I would happily delight in that vision, but now it almost feels like I’m “not attracted enough” or at all. Can an HOCD sufferer’s pre-occupation with the same sex result in muted or blunted feelings for the opposite (and desired) sex? I’ve (compulsively) scoured the Internet trying to see if this has happened to others; in addition to fearing I’ve somehow, as I wrote before, “accepted the truth” or made myself vulnerable to the possibility, I feel incredibly upset that I could have “lost” my attraction to men in this whole process and that even going through treatment I will never get it back. For as long as I can remember, being with a man is what I wanted most (i.e. healthy/stable relationship) and it feels so threatened now. Can that desire ever come back as strong as it was before?
Jennifer,
It is extremely common for people with HOCD (or any type of OCD for that matter) to report that they feel a reduction in libido. Furthermore, people with HOCD over-attend to their libido because they are so concerned about their sexuality, and then overvalue what it means when they notice (or imagine) a reduction in interest for the opposite sex. This in turn often leads to more concerns about being gay, because they interpret this to be further evidence that they are not interested in the opposite sex. I suspect your desire will return to what it was before when you learn to more effectively manage your HOCD. I encourage you to continue with ERP and to also include mindfulness training as part of your recovery.
So these past few months have been extremely harsh on me. I’m a senior in high school and this is just making me fail in school and just robbing my passionate side of myself. I’m straight (at least I was at one time) and I have no idea anymore. I’ve been suffering with this since about August when i thought about some same sex experiences i had with my ex step brother when i was about 9 though 13. I used to love and cherish women, i used to kind of worship them in a way. I’d pray to god to have a women’s love and pray for happiness, but now i just don’t have it in me i guess. Also, before this started, i had a bad long distance relationship that absolutely drained me, it drained my confidence so much. In the few months before all this started, I was already having problems with girls, this just put me in deeper. I’m just so lost, i’m kind of buying into the thoughts i’m having I guess and i don’t know if I have SO-OCD anymore. How this all started was I was laying down on a august-September night, I was thinking why i’ve been having trouble with girls then my childhood experiences came into my head and i just immediately curled up in bed and kept saying no.
Richard,
A few thoughts…
It is incredibly common for children to experiment with sex, and that experimentation often includes same-sex experimentation with a family member. These experience do not make one gay, though they can certainly cause confusion and discomfort for people when they reflect on these experiences.
You say you “don’t have it” in you to have happiness and a woman’s love. This seems to me to be a profoundly distorted thought. You are only a senior in high school! The great majority of people your age struggle mightily with relationships – after all, you simply haven’t had enough time on earth to have learned how to have a healthy intimate relationship with a woman. Cut yourself some slack!
I don’t see anything in your comment to suggest you are gay. I encourage you to discuss your unhappiness with your parents, and to ask them to get you a therapist. You would benefit by getting some help to process your childhood sexual experimentation, as well as your HOCD thoughts.
I originally had a random thought about being gay one day. it was totally out of the blue and caused great anxiety in me. I have never ever thought of myself like that and I have always been attracted to boys so it made no sense that I had had this thought. It caused me a great deal of anxiety and depression and a feeling that I had truly lost my mind. I constantly mentally asked myself if I was looking at girls and thinking they were attractive even though I didn’t want to and it instilled great anxiety in my everyday life. I found this website during my troubles and have since seeked professional help. Although I do not think I am lesbian & this thought is irrational, I can’t help but think I am lying to myself because the thought was so real feeling even though it was the worst weeks of my life. I avoid certain tv shows and other gay/lesbian/bi people/shows/mentions. It sets me off. I read this article and it describes me perfectly, but when I talk to my doctor I am extremely worried that I am telling her things that I feel just because I read this article & I am lying to myself & hiding the fact I am secretly lesbian. Please help me.
Hi Taylor,
So you have never, ever thought of being gay and then one day you had a “random thought” about being gay. If you had a thought about being a turnip would you believe that you are a turnip? Of course not.
You had a random thought, which all humans have. In fact, random thoughts about the endless variations of sexual expression are extremely common (mostly because humans really like sex and think about it a lot). But there is no reason to believe that any specific random thought is particularly indicative of how you truly feel. Have you ever thought of killing someone? If you have, that doesn’t mean you are a killer. It means you had a thought. This is no different.
Additionally, avoiding things that make you anxious is a compulsion and is a sure-fire way to make yourself more anxious. I encourage you to instead face your anxiety-producing thoughts head-on. Thought cannot hurt you – they are just thoughts.
Thank you for your reply. What really makes me afraid is that I am only a sophomore in high school. I also have taken your test (months ago) about HOCD and checked off 17 items (keeping in mind I have never had sex/watched porn). Does this sound like OCD? I know what I felt & did during those times of anxiety lines up completely with this article (and other pure ocd articles pertaining to other topics) but I almost feel like I have convinced myself I have OCD. I am afraid that I am telling myself I felt these things just because I read these articles. This has been causing me even more anxiety. Is this common with OCD sufferers? I know this sounds irrational because my experience was real. It was out of the blue and like walking through Hell and just as described in the article up above! I am afraid my brain is playing tricks on me & I need to know if this is possible ASAP!
Taylor,
Your age has nothing to with it. OCD strikes people of all ages, including people much younger than you.
You say your “experience was real”. But the only experience you had was a thought. Thoughts are not the same as actions. You have done nothing gay. You merely had a thought. I am having the thought “I am a pretzel” right now, but that does not mean I am a pretzel, nor that I will become one. It means I had a weird thought.
You say your brain is playing tricks on you. I agree. The trick is called OCD.
Hello Doctor,
I had tried watching some gay porn earlier today to test myself, usually I would be to anxious to even try but since I was prescribed an SSRI I have been feeling very little anxiety lately and thought I would try and test myself. I put on the gay porn and achieved a semi-erection. But I did not enjoy watching it at all. Why is this? Is my brain just reacting to viewing sexually explicit material? One thing that does bother me is that when I watch porn, I think that I pay more attention to the penis in the video than the average straight male. I think due to this, when I see a penis I become erect. This bothers me a lot. Another thing that bothers me a lot is that I honestly have no clue if I am enjoying the gay images that pop into my head and cause my HOCD. Before I started taking an SSRI, I was beside myself with anxiety but now not so much. I don’t want to be gay or have gay thoughts and I feel like I know deep down I’m straight but like I said before I’m scared because gay subject matter has the potential to cause arousal and like I said before I am scared that I may be enjoying these thoughts, but I think chances are that’s just the ocd messing with me.
Very Confused,
A few thoughts…
1) Stop watching gay porn to check your erections and arousal level. This is a classic HOCD compulsion.
2) Stop analyzing your your penis and your experience of pleasure.
3) This is at least the fourth comment you have posted here, all of which basically ask the same thing. It sounds to me like you are using comments on this blog article as a compulsion to get evidence that you are not gay. So I encourage you to stop posting here.
Hello Tom.
Thank you for your response (December 15th).
Is watching gay porn an exposure exercise or should it only be done under certain conditions? For example, is no generalised exposure a good idea without first finding out what triggers a person? Is gay porn always recommended as exposure, or only for certain people and under certain conditions? By watching so much gay porn and desensitizing myself to it, I’ve found that these ideas are always on my mind. Since the oral sex thoughts triggered by watching so much of it, I keep feeling the need to prove I dislike oral sex and penises. I am consistently bored by homosexual stimuli but it’s as if my obsessive mind is constantly telling me to check to prove I won’t come to like it.
By keep watching gay porn am I just reinforcing these oral sex thoughts ans making them worse? Also, anything that resembles a penis, be it a banana or a cigarette or even words like suck and blow trigger the oral sex thoughts of losing control?
As I’m sensitized to such thoughts and gay porn is not the answer, what is recommended? Would a loop tape be a good idea, or are cognitive and mindfulness factors better, as well as ceasing compulsions?
Craig,
I am a bit confused. You write asking about watching gay porn as an exposure, yet I could not have been more direct in my prior reply to your prior comment when I wrote:
“Watching gay porn and measuring your penis in an effort to test for arousal is the exact wrong thing to do.”
Just for the sake of simplicity, let me reiterate – stop watching gay porn and stop testing for arousal and stop analyzing your penis.
I strongly encourage you to stop trying to be your own therapist, and to instead seek out the services of a therapist who specializes in CBT for the treatment of OCD.
Doctor I just have a quick question to ask you. Recently (3 days ago), I decided that I am going to stop doing all of my compulsions. I have slipped up at times but so far I am doing alright. Since I have stopped doing compulsions, I feel like I am gay. I don’t know how to explain it but I just feel like I am actually gay. When I do compulsions and force myself to think about gay thoughts and experience anxiety that is a very reassuring feeling. I suspect that I have become addicted to the anxiety as some form of reassurance method? Is this common in HOCD? Although I am not experiencing as much anxiety I am experiencing some sort of negative feeling that I am not entirely sure how to put into words. I think maybe it’s a sensation of sadness mixed with my unwillingness to accept uncertainty. I can’t really tell if I’m enjoying these thoughts or not either. I never respond to them the same way I respond to sexual thoughts about females but I feel something and I can’t put my finger on what it is. Recently, the majority of my HOCD fears have been revolving around a certain same sex friend of mine. I’ve been diagnosed with (H)OCD but I fear this may actually be real and not OCD.
NotSureAnymore,
I wouldn’t say you are “addicted to anxiety”, but it sounds like you using the feeling of anxiety as a form of reassurance that you are not enjoying the thoughts. We see this frequently with clients struggling with OCD.
The name you have chosen says it all – “NotSureAnymore”. You appear to be stuck on the idea of being “sure”. But we don’t get to be 100% “sure” about our sexual orientation, nor do we need to be.
The path to freedom lies in accepting uncertainty. Let your brain think whatever thoughts it wants to think, and stop trying to figure them out. They are just thoughts. You don’t need to figure out if these thoughts mean you are gay or if you enjoy them, or if you really have OCD. Instead, you need to let the thoughts exist without analyzing them or seeking reassurance about them.
One of my main compulsions is to look at gay porn and monitor my penis. Usually when I do this I see some movement but I never actually get an erection.Today I tried to masturbate to the gay porn and I found I was able to obtain an erection very quickly after I started touching myself. I also noticed that I was getting a much more intense sensation that normal and I felt like I was very close to ejaculation very soon after I began masturbating. This bothers me a lot, I do not know why this is happening, why am I feeling more stimulated by this gay porn than the usual heterosexual porn? One thing I will say is that I much rather enjoy thinking and looking at women while masturbating. I find it much easier and pleasurable to put myself in hetero fantasies while masturbating and its pretty hard to force myself think about gay things while masturbating let alone enjoy them. I have also had a very long history of porn usage and I never masturbated to gay material before (for pleasure) maybe it was my brain reacting to something new? The bottom line is that I’d much, much rather think about women but watching this gay porn stimulated me more than hetero masturbation has in the past.
Hi Ted,
A few thoughts…
You noted “One of my main compulsions is to look at gay porn and monitor my penis.”
Compulsions do not work. They almost always backfire. Stop jerking off to gay porn, and stop monitoring your penis.
You also noted “Today I tried to masturbate to the gay porn and I found I was able to obtain an erection very quickly after I started touching myself.”
Yes, that is how masturbation works – you touch yourself and you get a hard-on. Nothing very unusual here…you could touch yourself while looking at a plate of broccoli and you would get an erection.
You also noted “I felt like I was very close to ejaculation very soon after I began masturbating.”
Again, this is how masturbation works.
And you also noted “I find it much easier and pleasurable to put myself in hetero fantasies while masturbating”.
I encourage you to stop masturbating to gay porn to test yourself, and to instead masturbate to hetero content that brings you pleasure. Or better yet, have sex with a woman. I suspect that will be even more fun. Chronic masturbation to porn is not helping.
Hi. I think I can use some help. I’ve been suffering of what I think is HOCD for about 4 years now. I had never had a gay fantasy in my life. A month ago, while I was trying to prove I wasn´t gay imagining gay scenarios, I thought about a handsome man, and it did nothing for me. Then, I thougth something like “If I look like that, I’d probably have a lot of sex” with women, of course. And I imagine myself as someone better looking, having straight sex, and it aroused me. I dindn´t imagine another man’s body, I believe, it was just me, having sex, imagining it would be easier if I was better looking. At that time, it reassured me, because I was being aroused by straight sex and not by gay thoughts. But a week ago, I thought that, although it was straight sex, it kind of involved another man. And that’s when I lost myself. I have been searching a lot, trying to find if that counts as a gay fantasy, and I am really scared. Sometimes I think it’s normal, because it was a thought about straight sex, and if imagine just a handsome man, that looks like I wish I looked, it doesn´t arouse me. So, my question is: was that gay? Was that a gay fantasy? Did I turned gay? Thak you very much
Alejandro,
You fantasized about a straight sex, and it aroused you. That sounds pretty straight to me. Just because there happened to be a guy in this straight sex scenario doesn’t indicate that you are gay. After all, straight sex always involves a male and a female, so there is a guy in every straight sex scenario that you could possibly fantasize about. Furthermore, people don’t “turn gay”, and even if they did, it makes no sense that fantasies of males having sex with females would turn one gay.
Your job is to stop analyzing your thoughts, feelings, and arousal states, and to stop checking to see what your penis is doing in various scenarios.
After spending a while freaking out over “gay thoughts” a quick google search (compulsion, I know) led me to these excellent articles and it makes perfect sense.
However it got me thinking, as a child I struggled with the form of OCD which leads to repetitive behaviours, the old classics like switching lights on and off etc… as far as I was aware this had miraculously disappeared, however all this reading has led me to realise that I still have certain routines which I just tended to gloss over, especially one silly habit of clicking on a song with a positive sounding title before I close my itunes window (Happy by Pharrell rather than Slayer’s Reign in Blood to give a crude example). I’ve also noticed that the thought patterns which stem from the HOCD also pop up in other situations such as during conversations, I tend to worry that the other person isn’t really listening when they blatantly are.
So it seems to me that perhaps HOCD is a symptom of a much larger problem, also is it possible that my OCD really did disappear for a while, or had I simply managed to deal with the uncertainty for a while and now some external factor has brought out that fear again?
Alexander,
This all sounds like OCD to me. It is not unusual for OCD to “disappear for awhile”, or at the very least to decrease to such an extent as to be sub-clinical. It is also not unusual for OCD symptoms to change over time, and for “adult” symptoms to be different from symptoms experienced as a child. If anything, your earlier experience of OCD symptoms further suggests that your most recent symptoms are part of OCD.
Also, it is important to note that HOCD is not some special, separate condition. HOCD is just a colloquial term for OCD symptoms that focus around sexual orientation. In other words, your HOCD doesn’t sound like “a symptom of a much larger problem” – it sounds like OCD.
Hi,
I have written on here a couple other times. However, I have been doing pretty well with managing my HOCD recently. Once in a while I get a few spikes but I am not over attending to the thoughts as much. One thing that really bothers me without my control is my dreams. I’ll be having a dream about a guy or something and will automatically think “what if this was a girl” and get extremely turned on without my control. In my head I try to stop it and I know I don’t want it to happen so I think of the guy, but won’t be able to get turned on by the thought of him. I think it stems from in real life I feel like I’m not extremely attracted to men anymore. I’ll be out dancing with a guy or something and think he’s cute and be enjoying myself. But then I’ll have to picture myself dancing with a girl to think if I’d rather be doing that. The answer is always no, but then again I’ve never been with a girl so how would I know if I’d be more turned on by a girl then with a guy? It just leaves me feeling really anxious in the morning. Sometimes I have dreams that my deceased mother is telling me maybe I’m gay or something like that. It’s never very clear. But they’ve been freaking me out.
Gabrielle,
Dreams are just dreams. They do not mean anything. If you dreamed you were a bowl of oatmeal flying to Pluto on a wave of daffodils, would you take that dream to be meaningful. Of course not.
Let you brain dream whatever it wants.
To start off I have been dealing with this for a long while it feels like now. About a year and a half I believe. When I was younger I always remembered liking women I am a male BTW and always self identified being straight. I have been with 14 different girls and had some longterm relationships. In fact I have been married to the love of my life for over a decade now. But I always watched porn and I do not know if it is escalation or what. But I eventually started getting into transsexual port which I watch for years. It never bothered me until a this hocd hit. Or at least I hope it is. I started doubting myself testing ruminating all the traditional pitfalls. I would worry excessively about performance with the woman I never had issue with for over 10 years. My mind has twisted so much that I am convincing myself that I need to test on gay porn and that I never tried is why I didn’t identify with it. But this doesn’t bring me happiness or contentment the thought of being gay. But now gay imagery and the thought of masculinity now bothers the hell out of me. I feel guilty that I am not there enough for my family as well. I wake up with an erection and worry it was from a gay dream
Dave,
You’ve never been with a man, and you’ve been with 14 women. You’ve always liked women, and have been married to one for over a decade. And “gay imagery” bothers you. That all sounds pretty straight to me.
Testing for arousal to any kind of porn is a compulsion that will only make things worse. Stop testing yourself.
When men dream, they automatically get an erection, regardless of the content of the dream. This is a normal event for healthy men. You could be dreaming of math or flowers or the moon, and you would still get a hard-on. Stop analyzing the content of your dreams and whether the content of your dreams is leading to an erection.
Dr, after reading your article, I found that I have serious HOCD and ROCD. When I was young, I was interested in women and feel sexual arousal while seeing women’s body. At that time, I thought I was straight. However, when I was junior students, I fall in love with my friends who is a gay. I love to hug with him and we have masturbation and oral sex (one time). After we broke up, I get serious HOCD and keep checking my sex orientation. I am not sure I am bisexual or not. Now I have a good relationship with my girlfriend for 9 years, but these kind of obsession become worse when our relationship become calm cause of time. I try to figure out my sex-orientation through watching gay movie and straig movie, and I compare the feeling. While I was watching gay movie, I feel a little nervous and did not erection. (But I still suspicious that I did not erection is because of my nervous) Do you think I am bisexual？ and if I want to try ERP, I am afraid that contacting with gays will truly fall in love with gay like when I was junior, then I can not face my girl friend cause I want to have a relationship with my girl friend. This is what I really scared. Is there any idea you can give me?
Peter,
It sounds like you experimented with a boy when you were younger. Congratulations, you are far from alone. Lots of people experiment with sex when thy are young – it is completely normal to do so.
I have no idea if you are bisexual…nor do I think you or anyone else needs to know. Why is it that people think they need to “know” their sexual orientation? If you suddenly woke up “bi” tomorrow, nothing about you would be different except that you would be open to more sexual partners. Everything else about you would be the same. Simply put, sexual orientation is not the key component in one’s personality – it is just one thing.
I am really freaking out at the moment, my senior year of high school i suffered from this but I powered through and realized what it was and I had “beat” it in a sense, now I am a freshman in college and it has just appeared again, and now I worry that if I “beat” it once and it can just come back then how in the world can I ever beat it again?!!?!
Hi Lucas,
Obsessions are just thoughts. Everybody has bizarre thoughts that come into their minds, but people with OCD value those thoughts as being meaningful, when in fact they are just weird, unexpected thoughts.
The best way to manage OCD is not to attempt to “power through it”, but rather to accept the presence of the unwanted thoughts. The more you resist their presence in your mind, the more they will bother you. When these thoughts appear (and they will), remind yourself that they are just thoughts and get on with doing whatever it was you would be doing if you didn’t have the thoughts. If you find yourself unable to effectively accept the thoughts, then I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in OCD treatment with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
Is it possible to be sexually aroused from looking at ‘fit men’ and not be gay? Ive been straight all my life and Im a 35 year old man. Ive been battling with this anxiety for 8 years now. When it started I was put on ssri medication and it pretty much went away. I came off my meds a few years ago and now these thoughts reoccur. If I look at gay porn to test myself I find myself getting aroused, much more than looking at lesbian porn. How can I not be gay, if I am getting aroused to gay porn? I absolutely hate it and am suicidal because of these thoughts. Am I in denial?and do people with HOCD get this too?
Justin,
A few thoughts…
Of course you got aroused watching gay porn. If you watch people fucking, you will get aroused!
Watching gay porn to check for arousal is like looking into the sun to see if it hurts your eyes – pretty much every time, you’re not going to like the result. Simply put, this behavior is a compulsion that is guaranteed to backfire. A simple solution is to stop watching gay porn to check for arousal. In fact, I encourage you to stop watching gay porn altogether.
Gay denial is a bullshit idea. I encourage you to read our article Doubt, Denial and OCD.
Sir, I’ve been a guy who’s romantically loved women for as long as remember. I’ve completed high school now. During school years I had an experience that made me believe that I was gay. I went through a long and hard process of proving that I wasn’t. I eventually tried to try and be gay . It didn’t feel good and was very depressing. I moved on and everything was normal for a few years. I still liked women, masturbated to straight porn, had crush on girl. Now I once watched gay porn and it aroused me to the point of orgasm. It felt god at the time, but immediately afterward, I felt disgusted and felt no attraction to a guy. But thoughts of gay sex,dreams are plaguing me nonstop. I really don’t want to be gay, and feels like I’m going against my previous self. My libido Is suffering greatly, I’m not sure wether I’m straight.i masturbate to straight porn and fantasise about girls which makes me feel distressed and the whole cycle repeats. My biggest fear right now, is doing something homosexual while I’m drunk. Or doing it on impulse. It’s literally haunting me. (I’m really impulsive sometimes.) these thoughts won’t leave me alone right now. So is this hocd?
Neil,
Everything you write sounds like textbook HOCD.
These unwanted thoughts will not leave you alone so long as you resist them. They are just thoughts, and do not merit any response other than to shrug and get on with your day as if they don’t mean anything…because they don’t mean anything.
Hi, I have been dealing with unwanted thoughts for quite a time now. HOCD is very frustrating, and I couldn’t get the thoughts out. I have a concern, I kind of experience spikes in certain situations and this brings up my worries. These spikes occur if I see someone, for example in effeminate position, I get very uncomfortable start atuning to my body. I mean it’s hard to avoid situations like that. It has gotten to the point where I ask people to actually change positions. I have always been attracted attracted to girls, and I can’tell imagine myslef with a man. What do you think?
Kev,
Everything you write sounds like HOCD. Asking others to change their position is a compulsion which may provide temporary relief, but is making your HOCD worse in the long run.
Hey,
I’ve been dealing with hocd for a while now. Maybe 2 years. It probably started early 2014. Around June last year I decided to stop all porn and masturbating for a month. This seemed to get rid of my hocd up until now. Of course there were some exceptions where intrusive thoughts came back (around January)but up until today It has been generally good
It all started when I read an article about a man who discovered he was gay at 28 years old. This person subsequently got a divorce from his wife and is now openly gay.
The most distressing thoughts for me is the possibility that I am actually gay, but somehow my brain has repressed this thought. In other words, I am actually gay but I have not realised this yet. I think this is latent homosexuality where later in life you find out you are gay
My question is
Is it possible to be gay but completely unaware that you are yet ? Or are these people aware that they are gay, but choose to hide these desires. Sometimes I think that I am a repressed homosexual but for some reason when I acknowledge this I don’t get attracted to men
Also,sometimes when I spikeI admit I’m gay and it feels like a relief and good. Any reasons for this?
Rich,
You are focusing a lot of time and energy trying to figure out if you are gay and in denial. I encourage you to stop spending any time trying to figure out your sexual orientation. Instead, I suggest you read our article Doubt, Denial and OCD.
Your effort to figure out your sexual orientation is a mental compulsion that does not do anything except to make you more obsessed about a question that does not need an answer. The bottom line is that gay men like having sex with other men. Nowhere in your comment do you indicate that you have had sex with men or that you find the idea appealing.
Hi,
I first had these thoughts probably 2/3 years ago, they came completely out of the blue, but caused me great anxiety for about 8 months. I couldn’t eat or sleep properly and felt sick for 2 weeks or so. I got worried that I was attracted to my school friends who were girls, but eventually these thoughts passed. They would crop up from time to time, however I did not dwell on them in the same way. Now they have come back, and consumed me ever since. I do not want to be a lesbian – it is my worst nightmare, however I don’t know how it will ever go away, I am scared that the only way they’ll go is if I act on them sexually to prove they’re wrong. I know deep down that I am straight, I’ve always wanted to marry a man and have children, and I still have crushes on men even when my HOCD is strongest, however the groinal sensations which I get when I am anxious really confuse and upset me and has led me to question if I was ever attracted to men! This isn’t what I want. Even when I feel better, and have a good day I am worried that I don’t have these thoughts so I have accepted that I am a lesbian and then can’t get worried about it which scares me more! Is this HOCD?
Izzy,
Everything you write sounds exactly like textbook HOCD. I encourage you to find a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
Hello,
I am dealing with what I think is HOCD. It started as a random thought then my mind started to actually fear becoming gay. I looked at various HOCD forums to get reassurance and when I did I got happy I wasn’t gay. Then the thoughts came back stronger and now it’s like my mind is liking the gay thoughts. But, I do not want these thoughts to be on my mind. I’m scared because I’ve lost my full attraction to women, but I still get aroused to them . I also find them attractive in person. I can’t imagine dating a guy. Even if I tried I know it won’t work cause that’s not what I want. I have always been and will always be attracted to females but my mind is making me think I do not. I just don’t know why my mind is looking at gay sex as pleasurable and wanting to do it, when deep down I don’t. What do I do? I also masturbate to women and always have so I can check to see if I get aroused. Also is it gay to get aroused by gay thoughts or is that anxiety and fear causing fake arousal? Will these thoughts go away if I ignore them? Lastly, is it possible to turn gay overnight? And when all of this goes away will my real attraction towards women come back?
Austinrt,
First, nobody suddenly “turns gay” overnight.
As for everything else you write, it all sounds like typical HOCD. Your job is to accept the presence of these thoughts without taking them seriously. Your brain, like everybody else’s, likes to crank out a lot of nonsense. Take a step back and remind yourself that these are just thoughts that don’t need to be taken seriously. And don’t masturbate to check if you get aroused. You will likely get aroused by any masturbation, regardless of what you think about when masturbating.
I think I’ve been suffering from HOCD for about a year. It started during the tail end of my Harm OCD. I felt my OCD fighting for survival by making me crazy about many other random things and I found about about POCD and HOCD and I had minor POCD for like 2 weeks and then I though “What if I’m gay” and here I am. The thing that really bothers me is that I have had “HOCD” as a child when my penis accidentally touched a friends back when I was riding on the pegs of a bike and I thought I liked the sensation of that and that’s where it all began. It returned in middle school when I was so infatuated with this one friend of mine I thought, “Am I gay for him?” and most recently started when I was watching a movie and a gay thing happened and I thought I felt a tingle in my groin. What really bothers me is that I am aroused by penises for some reason, well I was, it doesn’t happen the same as it used to anymore but who knows why. The thing is I was just aroused I didn’t get any lusty feelings like I did when I thought about girls. I have had my doubts about my sexuality in the past because of my muddled history but I don’t think I’d ever have gay sex. The idea used to make me gag.
John T.,
I see no evidence you are gay. On the other hand, I see a lot of evidence that you have HOCD. You have never had sex with a man, you don’t anticipate having sex with a man, and you say the very idea of sex with a man used to make you gag. Add to that the fact that you appear to be spending an awful lot of time analyzing your sexual orientation. This all sounds like classic HOCD.
Having sensations when your penis rubbed against a guy by accident doesn’t make you gay. I suspect you would have had a similar response if your penis had accidentally rubbed up against a girl. In fact, I suspect your penis would have had sensations if you had rubbed up against just about anyone or anything – that’s what happens when penises rub up against things (and when people watch people having sex in movies).
Please help me. I can’t tell if my HOCD is making me crazy or what but I fear I have repressed homosexual thoughts/feelings. My therapist basically assures me that I am straight but I don’t know anymore. I get aroused by gay erotica I think. I always wanted to be with a woman but I’ve always been too scared to try and I always felt like there might be something missing. I never had the urge to chase after women like my peers, I was perfectly content fantasizing about them and being single in real life. I have fallen in love with a girl in the past but I fear I can never feel that way again. The thing that bothers me the most is that when I view gay material I get this really strange feeling, I can’t tell what it means. It feels like a fluttering in my chest which I can only interpret as sexual arousal/”want”. When I had this small “realization” today I just sobbed all day long and I felt like I wanted to die. In reality I don’t want to be gay and be with a man. I want women but I’m afraid that deep down below I am gay because I get this feeling when viewing gay stuff. In reality I’ve only been drawn to women but its like my mind is gay but I will never lead a homosexual life.
Wally,
This all sounds like classic HOCD. You provide absolutely no evidence of being gay – just the fear that you are gay. The fluttering in your chest is likely anxiety related to your fear that you are gay (and not evidence that you want to be with men). If you want to be with women, then I encourage you to start approaching women. In the meantime, stop testing yourself by looking at gay erotica. This is a compulsion, and it only makes your OCD worse.
Would you still think I am suffering from HOCD if I told you that I think I have a “dick thing,” where I experience sexual arousal from images of penises? I have read online that it’s pretty normal but when I look at places like yahoo.answers, the users always tell the person who asked the question that they are secretly gay and although they are most likely just random uneducated people on the Internet, the fact that they still consider it gay frightens me. I feel like the arousal I experience is almost out of jealously or something if seeing their penis makes me feel insecure or something. I have also been very infatuated with some friends of mine who were male. Particularly this one friend who is literally the best at everything he does and is very handsome. It’s like I always wanted to be around him and I wanted people to know that we were friends because I felt like it made me look good to be friends with someone who everyone looked up to basically. I would even go as far as calling it a “man crush” does this new information make you think otherwise about my sexuality?? i feel as if this is further evidence of my repressed homosexuality. Any insight would be greatly appreciate
Wally,
You sound like you are trying to convince me that you are gay. That seems like a compulsion to me, and a total waste of your time. I stand by my previous comment.
And stop posting numerous comments under multiple names and email addresses…
Hello, I was just wondering, is it normal to experience sexual feelings when viewing gay pornography. I sometimes have groinal responses but that doesn’t really bother me because that seems to be a common theme in HOCD. Sometimes when I view gay pornograpgy I get this fluttering feeling in my chest and that really bothers me because I feel like it means more than getting a groinal sensation. Do these sensations make me gay? One thing I got going for me is that I really enjoy thinking about women sexually but I get this fluttering in my chest feeling sometimes when I put myself in gay scenarios or watch gay porn and it bothers me. It’s almost like its telling me that I really want gay stuff to happen to me but I just don’t feel this way in real life, at least I can’t tell anymore. I have tried to really force myself to enjoy gay thoughts/images to see if I can like them but it just doesn’t feel natural, when I think about women its very easy to get into and feels very good and natural. No matter how hard I try I can’t feel this way about men. Bottom line is that I feel like I want to like gay stuff and I’m just not letting myself but when I try to like it, it doesn’t feel right.
Gerald,
Having a sensation in your chest when looking at gay porn does not make one gay – having sex with people of the same gender makes one gay. In fact, I would argue that having a physiological response to looking at sexual content is 100% normal.
Nothing you write suggests that you like looking at gay porn, and everything you write suggests you are testing yourself, which is a compulsion. I encourage you to stop looking at gay porn, and to stop testing yourself and your responses to gay porn.
Hi Doc!
I’m 35 years old male. My hocd started when i was 19 and finished when i was 23. Then, when i was 27 started again. I only have these obsession, no more. It’s normal? I have read that when you have ocd always have diferent obsesions but this is not my case.
Thanks!
Hi Josh,
There is nothing unusual about your symptoms staying focused exclusively on HOCD. While the focus of obsessions in OCD changes for many people, for others their OCD stays focused on one issue.
Doc, until i started with hocd at 19, i never looked at men. Then i started to look at all men and can feel something in my chest like anxiety and weird feelings. When my hocd was gone, at 23, i never felt nothing of that until my ocd started again when i was 27. I was deep in love with a girl, and the sex with hers is amazing. But allways, 24/7, whenever i notice a goodlooking guy i have to look and feel something ok my chest again (anxiety or weird feelings). When i’m in the street it’s a hell. Sometimes i have no anxiety but i keep looping al the day, in TB, Facebook or on the street. When i was free of hocd i never looked at guys. And sometimes i heard “oh, he is hot” like an instant thought. It’s normal?
Josh,
Everything you write sounds like classic HOCD. It is not unusual for symptoms to repeatedly increase and decrease over time.
Doc, what can i do when i see a goodlooking huy in the street? I have to look. It’s horrible for me. And then i think for hours in the situation.
Thanks
Josh,
The best thing to do when you see a good looking guy is nothing. Do not make any effort to control their presence in your line of sight. Do not turn away. Do not analyze what you think or feel. Do not go out of your way to look at them or to ignore them. And do not try to rid your self of whatever thoughts or feelings arise. Accept the fact that other males exist and that some of them are good looking, without assuming that their attractiveness is important or that it says something about you.
Hi I’ve been suffering with hocd for over a year now and it’s been getting better but I occasionally have thoughts that make it come back. One thing I saw today was a girl making fun of gay people and saying its their choice, and because I don’t have anything against gay people and I’m a supporter of them I got offended by this and thought that it was so ignorant, but now Im thinking what if i got offended because I am gay? Does this mean I am gay if I got offended by her comment.
Amy,
I fail to see how being offended by a homophobic comment makes you gay. A far more realistic view of this matter is that you were offended by the person’s comment. Don’t waste your time and energy looking for secret meanings hidden inside your reactions to idiots.
I read that you said something along the lines of compulsions make HOCD worse so I’d like to ask you something. In the beginning of my issues, I knew it was HOCD right off the bat because I was suffering from harm OCD at the time and I was reading about different types of pure o and I came across HOCD and pocd. And I became concerned I was a pedo for like a week then I sat down and thought could i be gay? Then I thought of a homosexual fantasy tried masturbating to it and thought “nah” but it didn’t end there. I have been aroused by some gay things in the past so when I remembered this I flipped out. But I was having intrusive images of me performing oral sex on like every guy I saw and I was definitely not aroused by this and not even really all that bothered because I knew it was bs but when I started testing things really went down hill fast. My thoughts quickly latched on to a friend of mine who I’ve had an attraction to for some reason. He’s just very handsome and all around good at everything and now after basically a year of mental testing and testing by masturbating like 3x a day I can’t tell what thoughts/memories/feelings are even real anymore and im scared I’m really gay
MW,
The human brain has an infinite capacity for an infinite amount of thoughts. The problem is not the thoughts, but our reaction to them. When you “test” yourself by masturbating three times a day for a year to see if you are aroused by gay thoughts, you are pretty much guaranteeing that you will worsen your HOCD.
A better solution would be to accept that your brain is very creative and likes to come up with intrusive, unwanted thoughts about things that you find unappealing, and to not test yourself to see if you secretly like the thoughts. Simply put, “testing” is a compulsive attempt to gain reassurance, and it will always lead to a worsening of your symptoms.
Hello, I am hoping that you can clarify a problem I’ve been having. So I recently learned about internalized homophobia. Some symptoms are high anxiety and low self esteem (I have both extremely high anxiety and extremely low self esteem) but this is the thing that bothers me most. A symptom of internalized homophobia is not being able to come out. I have gotten this feeling during my bout with HOCD (hopefully) where it feels like I am gay but I can’t come out no matter how hard I try. I try to tell myself I’m gay and it’ll be alright but I can’t imagine a life where I go home and have sex with another man. I sometimes put myself in random scenarios such as I tell myself something like if you choose to go through this specific door it means you want to have sex with men. I always go to the other door so I can “prove” to myself I don’t want to have sex with men. In the beginning th idea of sex with men was honestly sickening but now it doesn’t bother me and I can’t even tell if I like the thought. I have gay people in my family but they’re all loved an accepted so I don’t think I was brought up in a homophobic household which is a large contributor to internalized homophobia.
Brian,
Nothing in your comment suggests homophobia and everything suggests HOCD. Many people with HOCD come to the conclusion that they are actually homophobic, and that they struggle with internalized homophobia, despite having no evidence to support this contention. A far more likely answer is that you have HOCD.
Hello Doctor, I think I have found the root of my problems and I’d like to ask your opinion. I’m a 20 year old male who has had harm and homosexual OCD throuought my life I think. Very recently I discovered the root of all my issues I believe. I had constitutional growth delay (late onset of puberty) growing up and this really messed my mind up. It led to me feeling very envious of other guys, and absolutely terrified of women due to the low self esteem. I still look young for my age, I think I look like 14-16 years old but my opinion may be biased because i always just assume the worst about myself. Others have told me I look around 18. But back to the issue at hand. I believe this has caused some pretty serious damage to my mental health because I always feel so inferior to everyone and I feel like no matter where I go people are staring at me and talking about me. I want nothing more than to be normal and to be able to enjoy social events and be able to talk to women but I just can’t. I feel like when it’s time to move out of my house and enter the real world I won’t be able to do it. I just want to lead a normal life and not be afraid of the world. Sorry this wasn’t about HOCD
Hi G,
While I can appreciate that having a late onset of puberty may have been difficult for you, I know of no research that suggests it to be correlated in any way with OCD. I am quite confident that there are many people who experienced a late onset of puberty who have not gone on to develop OCD.
As a general rule, I think it is a waste of time to look for the “root cause” of OCD, and doing so may even become a compulsion. Additionally, researchers have uncovered various genes and brain processes that appear to play a significant role in the development of OCD. So looking at past life experiences in an effort to find the emotional cause of your OCD is likely to be pointless and counterproductive. A better option is to focus on treating the symptoms with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), with an emphasis on Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).
Tom, I’d appreciate your comment. I’ve considered myself straight, had long sexual relationship with women, etc. I now may have some trouble with women as I’ve been through a harsh breakup and now (temporarily I guess) can see them only as a sex object, but can’t feel emotionally bounded with one.
10 days ago I first noticed troubling thoughts. As I was on a event, I noticed an attractive fellow, and my first thought was “damn, that’s a lady magnet”. Next moment I felt somewhat that seemed attraction and that worried me a great deal. “Am I bisexual or bi-curious?” I even had a small fantasy involving him.
So, over the next few days, I found myself having some fantasies, and, well, checked some gay porn. First it repelled me, but when I told myself that I should relax and try, I managed to turn on a bit.
I noticed that I appreciate male body (not in a sexual way, but I still glance on it, than on women).
My sexual fantasies right now are fixed on male bodies, I had gay dream. I accept, that this happened and those are thoughts only.
But a thought that I am bi and denying/suppressing it scares me.
I have no problem with bi, I just don’t want to be one of them.
Andranik,
A few thoughts…
1) Everything you write sounds like HOCD.
2) There is nothing innately gay about noticing that another man is attractive. Objectively speaking, there are lots of attractive men in the world.
3) Watching gay porn to test whether for not you respond sexually is bound to backfire. Humans find sexuality to be arousing, and you would likely get somewhat aroused by just about any kind of porn.
Tom, thank you for a reply.
I think I started to manage this stuff and being okay with that, but today something weirder happened.
I saw some female POV porn and after that I imagined myself being in a body of a woman, feeling myself in this body, and i drifted in this fantazy, enjoyed it. But as soon as I “woke up” from it – I got terrified. Why the idea of having female body turned me on so much, why did I feel that I want it badly? Do I want to change a gender? Well, no, it doesn’t fit with who I am, with the life I lead and so on. But how can it possibly be? Thinking that you want a female body and being aroused by a thought of having it and feeling it, and not willing to change my gender actually? Am I suppressing and denying myself? I am so confused, I don’t know what to think.
Andranik,
You ask “haw can it be” that you have these thoughts and get aroused by them, and the answer is simple:
1) Your brain can come up an infinite amount of thoughts about anything. That’s what brains do.
2) Human beings get aroused by all sorts of stuff. It is not one bit surprising that you got aroused watching porn of a woman getting aroused.
Stop analyzing your sexual arousal.
Hello,
I’m a 17 year old male who is (what I sincerely hope) suffering from HOCD. I liked girls my whole life, but never had a girlfriend (although a crush from school when I was 14), I’m a very shy character with probably a milder form of Social anxiety.
Anyway, a month ago, this obssessive fear about being gay started with a gay thought which made me question “Am I gay?!”. Until now, I have never looked at men sexually. For a couple of weeks I was crying non-stop and was depressed, kept checking photos of guys and reading HOCD posts on forums. When I first read about HOCD I felt relief. For 15 minutes. So I told my mom and we went to the doctor, who sent me to a psychologist. They diagnosed me with OCD and prescribed me Zoloft, which I’ve been taking for a month now.
But I fear that HOCD is just an excuse for not accepting the truth, because I mightbe a homophobe or scared of the society, even thought I don’t want this to be the reason. I never felt hate against gays, but when joking with friends or something we sometimes used the word “gay” as a kind of an insult, but didn’t really mean anything against gays. I’m just afraid I have internalized homophobia and am actually gay.
Nick,
A few thoughts…
1) Everything you write sounds like HOCD.
2) Your example of getting relief “for 15 minutes” when you read about HOCD is also quite typical. Simply put, compulsive checking and researching often works short-term, but never works long-term.
3) You note that you fear you are in denial and that accepting a diagnosis of HOCD is “just an excuse for not accepting the truth” about yourself. This fear of not having HOCD, and actually being in denial is a textbook HOCD obsession. I encourage you to read our article about challenges to the treatment of HOCD at https://ocdla.com/sexual-orientation-ocd-challenges-treatment-hocd-1978/. This article discusses this exact issue. You should also read our article Doubt, Denial and OCD.
4) I also encourage you to stop looking at pictures of guts and stop reading OCD forums and blogs (including this one), as it sounds like you are compulsively seeking evidence that you are not secretly gay.
Hi,
I believe I’m suffering from hocd and hearing things like your sexuality can’t change calmed me down. But then I saw people say that their sexuality changed multiple times or they found out they are gay at a later age really spiked me. I was in an online OCD chat and told about my issues and someone claimed that at my age sexuality does change and that his did. Can your sexuality really change at 16 if you were always into girls? This is torture and I’m scared it’s just denial.
Thanks for your reply.
John,
OCD is never about the content of your thoughts – it is always about the non-acceptance of uncertainty. In other words, the issue is not whether you are gay, but whether you can learn to accept uncertainty.
If I were to provide you some simple bromide that gave you a false sense of certainty, I would be doing you a disservice. Rather than doing that, I want to encourage you to accept that the human brain comes up with all sorts of thoughts, many of which are bizarre, unexpected and unwanted, and that the key to relief is non-judgementally accepting the presence of these thoughts in your mind instead of trying to analyze them or eliminate them.
And if you really need a bromide, here it is: Thoughts are just thoughts. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thank you for a very interesting article. My 15 year old son is currently in an inpatient program for OCD and they’ve been battling to get to the root of his fears. A while back we discovered that he had been watching gay porn. Because he was suicidal at that point we didn’t want to raise it with him and add to his distress.
I had also noticed over time that he has been experimenting with inserting various objects into his anus. (Because he has carelessly left them on his bed, on the floor in his room or on the bathroom counter).
I feel that I need to raise this with him because either he is gay and is battling to accept it and scared of how people will react, or it is what you describe.
I spoke to a psychologist about it and she feels the fact that he is experimenting means he must be gay but having said that OCD is not her area of expertise. Her advice was to ask him about it.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to add to his stress but on the other hand:
1. If he is gay he needs to know we still love him and it doesn’t change the way we feel about him
2. If he is not and this is gay OCD, his therapists need to know this if he is going to get his life back.
A mum,
A few thoughts…
1) If the inpatient program is trying to find “the root of his fears”, there is a pretty good chance that they have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Treatment for OCD does not involve looking for the root cause of the obsessions.
2) Your son putting things up his anus does not automatically mean that he is gay or that he has HOCD. The fact that he leaves them out for others to discover does however suggest that he has other issues. Most teen boys would be likely to hide evidence of sticking things up their anus. The fact that your son does not care if people find these items is unusual.
3) You indicate that you have spoken to a psychologist, but not that the psychologist has actually assessed your son. If she has not made a formal assessment of your son, the psychologist’s diagnosis has no merit whatsoever. Furthermore, the fact that a teen boy experiments with sexuality related to anus does not mean he is gay. Additionally, people with HOCD are likely to do all sorts of checking behaviors (such as testing to see if they are aroused by anal play). The psychologist sounds like she has no clue what HOCD is.
4) If the therapists at the intensive treatment program are unable to determine whether or not your son has HOCD, you need to get your son to someone who actually specializes in treating HOCD.
Hi Tom,
Thanks for your reply. We have subsequently removed our son from the inpatient facility as the treatment he was receiving was not focussed on OCD and very inadequate. He is returning to his original psychiatrist and therapist. I did meet with his therapist who is very experienced with OCD and who feels there is a strong chance that he is in fact battling HOCD.
I did want to ask if you have any suggestions why he may be leaving things out for others to discover. This weekend he left something out on a table downstairs in plain view of everybody in the house. He was up earlier than any of us and I have can only assume he had intended to “hide the evidence” before we all woke up, but he is making such a habit of it that I feel it needs to be addressed, especially as he has other siblings who are around.
Any suggestions/ ideas you may have would be a huge help.
A mum,
I am happy to hear that you have elected to remove your son from a non-specialized intensive treatment program that was “very inadequate”, and that the is now getting treatment with a therapist more experienced in treating OCD. That said, I do not feel it would be appropriate for me to provide guidance for your son’s behavior without having a formal assessment. I encourage you to discuss your concerns with your son’s current treatment provider.
Hi doc,
Thank you for your articles.
My first question is: can one has OCD all his life, being obsessed and doing compulsions of all kinds, without knowing it himself? This is pretty much my own case. I remember counting trees when I was in a car, doing maths endlessly in my mind when doing other things etc. Most serious symptom took place in high school, when I had to touch wood furniture frequently to make sure my grandparents would not die.There were anxiety when I did this, but I did most of those rituals unintentionally–except for the touching thing–I did not know what I did them for.
This June I was struck with HOCD and some depression during my exchange program in Japan. It was hell and I thought of suicide sometimes. I read your book, and tried mindfulness and CBT as I could not find a therapist. The result is tricky–I feel relieved as I accepted that I may be a bi, but still I feel uncomfortable with this. I am always very intolerant of uncertainty, and even though I never seriously questioned my sexuality and sometimes joked about it, I felt happy when others told me I am straight.
I returned home lately and my symptom much subsided. Should I still go for therapy? Thx
Nobody here,
First off, thank you for buying our book. That said, a book is no replacement for therapy with a treatment provider who specializes in treating OCD.
Also, it is not unusual for OCD symptoms to spike at times of change (i.e., during an exchange program in a foreign country), and to subside at times or relative ease. I think you should anticipate that your OCD may spike when you are again under stress (which is bound to happen in the course of anyone’s life). I encourage you to seek treatment now while your symptoms are low so that you are better able to manage your symptoms when they increase.
Hi doc! I am Josh again. I never dreamt about men until last year. Usually, i check in my dreams looking guys. But since last summer i have dreams very explicit with men. I’m all day reading about ocd and dreams. When i wake up i’m in panic. I can’t understand that because i love girls. I read that homosexuality can appear on dreams but i hate these dreams night after night. I fell in love with two girls and sex with woman is amazing. Monica Williams said that dreams in hocd never can cause arousal in any happy way. I live these dreams like nightmares.
Josh,
Gay dreams do not mean that one is gay. Dreams are just dreams. Furthermore, if you are spending all day reading about OCD and dreams, then it is not surprising that you are having gay dreams. I encourage you to do two things:
1) Stop reading about OCD, homosexuality, and dreams.
2) Find a therapist who specializes in treating OCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
Hi! My problems started when I was 14 yo and I notice a sensation in my prostate. At that time I never knew anything about it and it was associated with gay sex….so I translated I was liking it and I got very distressed. I Always had submissive thoughts with women and that created a feeling and thoughts I would like men now. If I had not felt that I would never imagine things that brought me so much suffering. I get upset and anxious and depression hits. I never had erections looking at men. I Always liked women and I would never look for a relationship with a man…but that feeling made think I was gay for 3 years until I heard about the prostate stimulation. I have a history of social anxiety,depression since childhood and panic attacks came later. Now, the problem is every time I like a girl I feel an EXTREME guilt , I lose weight and I feel like I need to tell her everything I went through. I had this OCD GUILT as a child too…I had to tell my mom everything bad and embarassing I thought about her. What should I do? I am more than 30 now and I can´t get a girlfriend without feeling guilt. Do I tell her everything? Is this HOCD cause I grew up worried and testing myself?
Tom,
A few thoughts…
1) I fail to see how a sensation in your prostate is evidence of being gay. I am confident that many straight males enjoy stimulation of their prostate.
2) You are not required to tell your partners everything that runs through your mind. Are you obligated to tell them what you put on your toast this morning? What color socks you thought of wearing? What type of toothpaste you use? Simply put, your thoughts, feelings, sensations are your’s, and you are not required to be an open book for anyone.
3) You would likely benefit from challenging the thoughts behind your feelings of guilt, and I encourage you to seek treatment using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
Thanks for answering! What really made me unconfortable was to link that pleasure that appeared out of the blue when I was a teen to gay sex. I imagine that stimulation meant I would like that and created thoughts that scared me a lot. I think it is because I Always imagine submissive things and all of a sudden it was linked to that…I thought about it all the time testing myself and it still makes me unconfortable when I remember it or see a movie scene. The guilt feeling comes when I think I need to tell a girlfriend about it because it is too embarassing and I feel inferior, otherwise it seems I am betraying her. I think: I bet she wouldn´t like me if she knew that. It is an overhelming feeling I can´t control! I see many people had same sex experiences when teenagers, I feel like that although I never really had sex. Are there cases where the person gets a heavy conscious about these experiences, feeling they need to tell their partners what occured? How are they treated…is it CBT too? Thanks again!
Tom,
If you enjoyed anal play, that is fine. If you enjoy being submissive, that is fine. Neither is evidence of being gay. And neither is worthy of guilt. You enjoy what you enjoy, and so long as your partners are consenting adults, you do not need to apologize to anyone.
I am quite confident that there are many straight men in the world who enjoy being submissive, and who have female partners who are glad to oblige them by being dominant. No harm, no foul. And I reiterate that i do not believe that you need to confess your guilt about what you enjoyed as a teen to current or future partners. You need to accept that you enjoyed what you enjoyed, and stop beating yourself up for it.
Hi,
I have had HOCD for about 3 months now. I have had depression for a year, have been diagnosed with minor ocd and anxiety and all my worries started during a high point of stress but never really went away. At first I would panic with every women I saw (I’m a girl) and would tell my self I would rather live in denial with a man than be with a women because it was more appealing to me. Then I came across HOCD and I felt such a relief because it was EXACTLY what I was going through. However, ever since I found HOCD I feel as if I’m just using it as an excuse to cover who I really am. My brain switches a lot from I’m for sure I’m straight to I’m gay, I honestly don’t know whats real anymore. I have lost all attraction to men which I hate because I used to be boy crazy and I just want it to come back.
Thanks for your time
Victoria,
A few thoughts…
1) Trying to deny your sexuality sounds like a terrible idea. That said, there is nothing in your comment that suggests you are a lesbian.
2) It is extremely common for people with HOCD to fear that they are secretly in denial, and that they are using this alleged denial as “an excuse to cover up” who they really are. I encourage you to read our article on “the denial obsession” to get a better understanding of this issue.
3) If you are unable to effectively manage this issue, I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
I’m 23 years old and always liked girls since i can remember. 2 months ago i had this thought,it was like a question in my head “could i become gay” . At first i didn’t panic because it was just a silly thought,but 2 weeks ago i had a lot of things going on and was really stressed and thats when the idea came back. I felt really bad , had a couple of panic attacks , couldn’t concentrate and felt like throwing up when thinking about it. At night i couldn’t sleep sometimes and started reassuring myself,thinking about all the past relationships i had with girls and how good it made me feel, but it was comforting for a while but the idea kept coming back . I went to two sessions of therapy because i couldn’t stand it anymore( i couldn’t do all the things i enjoyed like going to the gym or playing football or going out ), and the therapyst told me there is nothing wrong with thinking something because actions speak for ourselves.Sometimes i was thinking like could my whole life until now be a lie?was i faking it? sometimes when i don’t have that anxiety or panic and start feeling a bit better the idea comes back and i get scared or something that i have accepted it
Mike,
Everything you write sounds like OCD to me.
I should also note that two sessions of therapy is barely enough to scratch the surface. It also sounds like you r therapist doesn’t know a whole lot about OCD (you don’t mention anything about the therapist discussing your thoughts within the framework of OCD).
As for living a “lie” and “faking it”, that sounds exactly like what we call “the denial obsession”. I enccurage you to read our article on this topic, Doubt, Denial, and OCD.
I’m 19 years old and I’m a male. I have a girl friend who I lovedeeply and love having sex with and every other girl ive had sex with ive loved that too. Ive never had a gay experience nor been sexually attracted to another man and ive never had desires to be with another man either ive always been girl crazy. Recently a guy I knew in highschool came out and it worried me like what if I’m like that and just don’t know it. well one day having sex with my girl friend I lost my erection and it freaked me out since ive wondered if its because I might be gay. its bothered me so much that now I cant watch tv shows with gay things in them because I worry that what if ill like it. I’m continuously checking my groin to see if I have a response to men and I don’t but I’m freaking out I also have these thoughts of engaging in sex with a man and I hate the thoughts and they make me gag and want to throw up. I’m worried that I might be gay even though I never have been. I’m continuously asking myself if I think this or that guy is hot and sometimes my head is like screaming at me saying I do even though I know I don’t and it makes me anxious and depressed. I love my girl.
Boseefus,
A few thoughts…
1) Someone else coming out as gay has absolutely nothing to do with your sexual orientation.
2) Losing an erection during straight sex does not mean one is gay. It means you lost your erection.
3) Avoiding gay themed TV shows and similar gay subject matter is a compulsion that will make things much worse for you.
4) Ditto for checking your groin for sensations.
5) Those pesky questions like “do I think that guy is hot” do not need answers, and looking for an answer is a compulsion.
Hi, Thank you for the article! After reading the article, I managed to calm down (a lot). I have been having this mental battle since the second semester of my junior year in high school. I’m now a freshman in college. I have been struggling with dreams a lot. You know dreams of me being..well not straight. In most of those dreams I become anxious and fearful. Lately I had a dream where I was simply friends with a girl. But I don’t remember if I had any feelings for her in my dream.But I eventually let the dream go. But in college I saw a girl that looked very familiar but I didn’t know why. Then it hit me. My dream. I don’t even remember the face in my dream. But since I couldn’t figure out why my classmate looked familiar my mind said she was the girl from my dream.Then I had another dream where I had a crush on a guy, something happened then it became awkward. In the same dream someone asked me if I had a girlfriend and for some reason I said yes, I didn’t feel anxious. Now my mind is telling me that the dream meant I won’t be straight and I was meant to be “not straight”. And my classmate is my to-be “gf” since I feel a “connection” (maybe anxiety?)
Angela,
Dreams mean absolutely nothing. No matter how much psychobabble you read about dreams having some profound meaning, they don’t. They are just weird thoughts that come to us when we are sleeping. Analyzing your dreams in an attempt to discern if they are providing evidence of your true sexual orientation is a complete waste of time that will actually make your OCD worse.
Hi, I am a 15 year old girl who has been boy crazy since I was 2 years old. I have had boy friends through out my whole life up till now. When I was in 3rd grade I would experiment with my friend who was a girl which happened till like 6th grade. I never was attracted to her just it felt good and would just happen. I didn’t realize experimenting was normal until my problem with HOCD happened and I told my mom that I experimented when I was younger. Also I did not realize I had HOCD until a week ago. I have had this problem for about 2 months now. I am seeing a therapist, she finally just told me I have severe OCD. I still get worried a lot that I am gay or bi and that I am lying to myself. Also I have a boyfriend who I actually really love but my HOCD makes me question this too. I feel bad that I am dating him and having this incredibly annoying thoughts. My problem is I try so hard to seek answers. Also I go to an all girls school which makes me very anxious being there. There are a lot of gay and bi girls. I worry that one day in the future I will become gay and was lying to myself the whole time. This all makes it hard for me to sleep, I just miss my old self.
Helena,
Everything you write sounds like textbook HOCD. I encourage you to read our article on the denial obsession in OCD, as it pertains directly to your concerns that you are lying to yourself. Furthermore, I encourage you to discuss this matter with your therapist. And if your therapist does not have significant trying and experience with HOCD, then you should find a new therapist who does.
When I watch gay porn to test and see if I like it I find myself becoming aroused I get a greater physiological response to the gay porn. I don’t know if its anxiety or arousal, I never get a full erection from watching gay porn and I usually almost immediately get an erection when watching straight/lesbian porn although I feel like it doesn’t excite me anymore when in the past it would excite me a lot. I feel like to some degree I am experiencing pleasure when I see gay things or put myself in a mental scenario but when I try to imagine the reality of the situation any sense of pleasure is immediately gone. I don’t even know if I experience any pleasure in the fantasy/video although it feels like I am to some degree, I can never enjoy it like I enjoy thinking about women no matter how hard I try to force myself. In the beginning thinking about giving oral to a man made me gag, now thinking about it I get scared that I feel arousal while thinking about it. I don’t know for sure but I’m trying to get myself to accept maybe I have a small homosexual side but I just can’t accept it even though it feels like I do. I have had this fear 3 times in my life in total.
Help Please,
Four simple steps to help:
1) Stop using any kind of porn to check for your response.
2) Stop analyzing your erections.
3) Stop analyzing your thoughts and feelings of pleasure.
4) Find a therapist who specializes in OCD treatment.
Hi. I am a girl of age 15 and I have always considered myself to be straight. I have had OCD for my entire life since I was 5 years of age. Recently, I was watching this TV show where a man cheated on his wife with another man because he was gay and was hiding it from her. I then became so afraid that I would do this to my boyfriend even though I love him. I then thought about how horrible being gay would be for me. It would practically mean giving up my relationship in turn for a relationship with a girl which I did not have feelings for. Recently, I get aroused whenever I look at lesbian porn even though it disgusts me and just is not what I am normally into. I don’t get aroused by straight porn easily anymore which worries me. What if I have been lesbian this whole time? I don’t want that. That isn’t me. I do not want to break up with my boyfriend, I love him. I also imagined him, when we were cuddling, as a girl and how it would feel and I almost punched him because I was so nervous about losing him. I am so worried that I am gay. I just want all of this to end/be happy again. I had a dream about an attractive girl and I woke up crying. What if I am gay.
Mya,
A few thoughts…
1) If you saw a tv show about a 15 year old girl flying to Pluto in a toaster, would you think that had something to do with you? Of course not! So why would you assume that a tv show about a man secretly being gay somehow relates to you? What occurs on a tv show has no relationship to reality.
2) Dreams are even less related to reality than tv shows. Dreaming about an attractive girl does not make you or anyone else a lesbian.
3) If you are watching lesbian porn even though it “disgusts” you, then you are likely watching it to check yourself for arousal, which is a compulsion that is making your OCD worse, not better.
4) You say you don’t want to be a lesbian, which strongly suggests that you are straight. After all, by definition, lesbians want to have sex with women.
Thank you for this article. Sadly I have struggled with this theme on and off for around 12 years. In between I have had other obsessions revolving around brain tumors, cancer, my health. I am now 28, married, and the thoughts returned again. I no longer experience the dread and panic I used to, and I did not even know hocd existed until 3 years ago. It was a relief to discover, yet I was concerned because I could not recognize what my compulsions were. Now that this is back I’ve gone to more extensive mental checking imagining myself in homosexual situations while I sit and shake in fear hoping I don’t get an erection. Nothing happens, but yet I can’t rid myself of this idea that somehow I am gay. My sex life is not very good, and I worry that it is a secret indicator of homosexuality. I catch myself all the time when I am not obsessing because I have read that true homosexuals don’t spend time all day thinking about it. So I MUST think gay things all day to avoid calm and quiet because that would certainly mean the worst! I’ve tried to accept that I am gay, telling myself I am just trying to find peace. Nothing works and I fear for my wife and future.
Andre,
It sounds to me like you are forcing yourself to think about being gay in an effort to prove you are not, based on your belief that gay people actually don’t think about being gay all day. This is one huge all-day-long compulsion. And by your own admission, it hasn’t worked – you are still obsessing about being gay. I encourage you to stop forcing yourself to think anything. Let whatever thoughts naturally arise to exist without forcing them, and without trying to control or eliminate them. They are just thoughts.
Also, for what it’s worth, you have been struggling with HOCD thoughts for 12 years, yet you appear to have not become gay. I can think of no greater evidence that you are not gay than having had 12 years of these thoughts without acting on them. You have 12 years of evidence that you are not gay!
Hello, I have come to the conclusion that I have spectrum HOCD. I would wager that I am like 95-97% heterosexual with a very minute attraction to other guys. Nothing I would ever want to engage in ever, but I think I find it somewhat arousing to think about. I have never had or sought out a sexual experience with another man and I never will. Nonetheless, I can’t come to terms with the fact that I am even .000001% ‘gay.’ It has taken me a long time to admit this to myself but I can’t accept it no matter how hard I try. I just want to move on with my life. What really scares me is what if I am actually fully gay and not allowing myself to come to terms with it. I don’t think this is the case because I never had the emotions I feel for women for a man. Seeing a beautiful girl makes my heart skip a beat and makes me happy and I love thinking about them sexually. I never got this with a man. I just find penises arousing, maybe linked to my own insecurities? I have also felt a slight attraction to men I viewed as role models in the past. Not like I want to have sex with them but in a strange way, like I’m proud to be acknowledged by them. How can I accept I may be very slightly…
Miguel,
The problem is that you “can’t come to terms with the fact that (you are)even .000001% gay.” This is the very definition of non-acceptance. If you want to manage your HOCD, you may need to accept the possibility, however slim, that you could be gay. That doesn’t mean accepting that you are gay – merely that there is a small percentage of possibility that you could be. So could I and every other person on the planet. And why shouldn’t you think of some men as role models. That is completely natural. I see no reason for you or anyone to get hung up on a remote possibility of anything.
I need help. I have HOCD since July of 2016 and it’s getting worse. My brother is gay and i feel that was the trigger because I kind of neglected him. Lately I’ve been checking out guys but I think those are compulsions because I don’t enjoy it. I don’t get aroused when looking at guys but my brain keeps saying , “you’re gay!” Then I’ll shout over it and say,”no I’m straight!” Itd back and forth. Now it’s to the point where I’m genuinely confused but I mean I’ve always loved girls and have had several girlfriends. I never thought this would happen to me. Even my stomach is hurting really bad lately too from stress and I can’t even pay attention in school now. PLEASE HELP ME!!!
Conner,
Everything you write sounds like textbook HOCD (except the part about neglecting your gay brother, as that may have absolutely nothing to do with this). You say you want help so let make this as simple as possible…
Find a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
Hello,
I have struggled with hocd maybe like 3 years now. It has gone worse this year like really worse.. Its very hard for me to even talk about it. I need help. I’m pretty sure this all started when my familymembers were questioning whether i was gay because i had never dated? So then i started to wondering, well am i ? Omg no i can’t, it just doesnt feel comfortable. I had never been attracted to the same gender or anything. The thought of that even makes me sick. In this year i have had a relationship with an opposite gender, who i really loved and care. And after we broke up, i started to question again my sexuality, like what is happening in my mind and why!? This makes me having a mental breakdown and i’m sensitive like 2/3 of the day… Please give me a reply, i need it.
Ally,
Your strong negative reaction to the idea of being gay is a pretty good indicator that you are straight. And if going through a break-up with an opposite gender person were an indicator of being gay, then just about every straight adult would be gay, as most people (straight gay, bi, or otherwise) experience break-ups at some time in their life. Ignore what your family said.
Thank you for your very insightful information. So, I am a 50 yr old male. I have been diagnosed with OCD and have gone through a program which was very helpful in dealing with certain OCD issues. However, this one….in all the years I have been in and out of therapy, has never been solved. my issue…of course…is understanding my sexual identity and if I am straight, gay, or even a transexual. Currenlty, I am married, Our relationship is in trouble as my wife found out I had slept with a transexual 2 times while she was on vacation. We have tried to mend our marriage, but it’s been a nightmare. For many reasons. Still, the marriage is one issue, the other is my sexual identity. I have found that the gay fantasies arouse me so much more than hetero. In fact, I can have an orgasm while thinking hetero fantasies, but the homosexual ones are WAY more powerful. I simply don’t know if this is HOCD or if it is actually that I am a gay male living a lie. But, I simply don’t want to be gay. And, I wish the thoughts and fantasies were never there. But, they never go away…and arouse me more than hetero thoughts. If you have any insight, it could be very helpful.
Scott,
This does not sound like HOCD. It sounds like you find the idea of sex with men to be very appealing, and are more turned on by gay fantasies than straight fantasies. You may be distressed by your desires, but you also chose to act on them as soon as your wife went out of town. I don’t know if you are gay, or bi or something else, and I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in addressing sexual identity issues.
Hi Tom,
I’ve been very confused lately. I’ve considered myself straight my whole life except two anxious weeks in my teen years and now. After I’ve been after a tough breakup, I can’t imagine having any kind of relationship with women. I’ve been anxious that I might be gay after an occasional fantasy for a month, but that’s in the past, I believe that my sexual attraction leans exclusively towards women.
At the same time I can only seek sex with women, no emotional attachment. Men though I can admire, I believe that a relationship with a man can give me human warmth (women can’t). I could imagine living with a man, and to some extent I even like this thoughts, but when I realise that – I get anxious. I even think that I’d like or just like physical contact with men to an extent of a hug – I don’t want to kiss or have sex with one, but giving one a hug or touching – yes. That all makes me think that I might be homoromantic – I imagine relationship with a calm and sound person (and it’s a man), and I don’t imagine myself in a relationship with a woman (or I just don’t like those images). I wouldn’t say I’m terrified, but I am very much confused and uncomfortable.
Dylan,
A few thoughts…
The desire to avoid relations after a tough break-up is quite common. And it usually passes when someone who catches your fancy shows up.
You say you can’t engine warmth from a woman. I’ll chalk that up to your recent break-up.
You say that you are only sexually attracted to women. That sounds pretty straight to me.
You like the idea of a hug or some other non-sexual touch from man. Nothing gay about that.
Your confusion indicates that you might benefit from counseling with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
After waking up each day with the thoughts ” i want to be gay, you have to be gay,i dont want to be gay”, I think i am at a point where if that day comes i know i could deal with. if my friends disowned me i could deal with it.
What i still find very difficult is the feeling of attraction and the anal sensations that are triggered when seeing males and misplaced feelings of admiration? it feels like strong emotional attraction to men.
The intense paranoia episodes of thinking and being 99% sure that many different people have called me gay and ridiculed me about it.Its difficult to think these people are wrong. Epecially when at those time i felt like i was giving that vibe of. Ive been through the checking, still do, not as much though, the doubting that this is not ocd reasurance. My lifestyle is not healthy and i isolate myself alot to not deal with anxiety of going out but i am working on it, slowly . I also seem to suffer from anorgasmia which is deflating. I am just curious is this still ocd?do i sound like i am making progress from my post in 2011? Do others comment on the intense paranoia, not much to go on but an opinion…
Anon,
A few thoughts…
1) This all sounds like OCD.
2) Only people with HOCD obsess about “anal sensations” and whether they are indicative of homosexuality.
3) What other people think of you is irrelevant. If people think you are gay…so what!
4) If your friends were to disown you for being gay, they would be shitty friends and you would be better off without them.
Great article – very helpful. My HOCD is the worst it’s been since it first appeared 20 years ago when I was 13. I am engaged to a great man. He’s wonderful – I’m attracted to him and turned on by him. I was in a previous long term relationship with a man – also very sexually enjoyable. My HOCD tends to get worse during transition times – just got engaged and fiance has moved in so there is lots of change! I am plagued for hours of the day by my HOCD – especially wondering if I have feelings for my best friend. I just think she’s so beautiful, kind and smart – a magnetic personality. And then I think – do I want to kiss her? would I enjoy it? What if I would? Again, when I am with my fiance I don’t want to be with anyone else nor am I thinking this would be better if he was a woman. When I think of future love/intimate instances and insert my best friend I almost laugh at how silly them seem in my head – not at all thinking, wow yep, that’s what is supposed to be. I feel like I am acting strange around my friend now to try and mute these feelings. Is this common? I just want these thoughts to stop!
Fran,
Fran,
Everything you write sounds like HOCD to me, and nothing sounds like you are gay. Besides, why shouldn’t you have feelings for a friend that you describe as “beautiful, kind and smart” and possessing “a magnetic personality”. We should all be so lucky as to have such friend. But that doesn’t mean you want a romantic/sexual relationship with her.
That said, neither you nor anyone else can make their unwanted thoughts stop. You would be better served by letting the thoughts exist without taking them seriously. It sounds like you are sometimes able to laugh them off, which is exactly the right response.
Hi dr, I am almost 100% sure I am having a case of HOCD. For the last week I have been doing all the things that people who have it do, like constantly looking it up and reading the same articals over and over for reassurance. Checking myself to see if my downstairs area reacts to being with a girl, looking at pictures of attractive girls and asking do I like that, constantly telling myself I am straight. Looking at my boyfriend (of three years and who I know I love) and asking myself if I am attracted to him. I’ve never questioned my sexuality before and I was happy with being straight but now I think my OCD thoughts are just getting the best of me and telling me I am gay and I won’t be happy until I “come out” when I know that’s not me it’s never been me. I’m starting to feel a little better though yesterday I was feeling a little better and I told myself I wasn’t gay and I was starting to feel better but then something would say to me that’s just you accepting your gay. I don’t want that tho. It’s affecting how I look at my boyfriend and it’s making me feel so sad and empty and uneasy inside, please help me and give me some insight if this is just hocd like I think it is.
Hi Justice,
Everything you write here sounds exactly like HOCD. The best help I can give you it to suggest that you seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD. These unwanted thoughts are unlikely to spontaneously disappear, and proper treatment with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is your best option for learning to more effectively manage them.
It has started three weeks ago with this question “Maybe you are lesbian ?”. I started to test myself by looking at the other girls, to have unwanted thoughts, etc… I did your test and I had 18 test items cheked. Then, I thought that HOCD was only an excuse… Now, I am just depressed, and I don’t feel anything as if I am empty. I feel that my life is a a nightmare, that it is not real. I don’t know what is real or not. My brain constantly seeks proofs of the past which show that I am lesbian. However, I have always fallen in love with boys and I have always loved sex with boys. My boyfriend spent this semester abroad and he comes back in a week. I am scared… What is my problem ? (I am French and HOCD is unknown here)
Thanks for your time and sorry for my rough English.
Lena,
From what I read in your comment, your “problem” is HOCD. You have a boyfriend, have always fallen in love with boys, and have always loved sex with boys. That’s fairly compelling evidence that you are straight. The only alleged evidence that you are gay is an unwanted thought that popped up in your mind, and which makes you very uncomfortable and sad. Unfortunately, you are unlikely to find any therapists who specialize in treating HOCD in France. If you would like to discuss the possibility of online therapy for HOCD with one of our staff therapists, we can be reached via the contact page of our website at https://ocdla.com.
I had HOCD 10 years ago, for about a year, but it stopped after I was on meds .About 1.5 yrs ago I started having thoughts again about giving oral sex to guys . These thoughts are on my mind 24 hours a day to the fact that I feel very uncomfortable leaving my house , or watching tv or seeing male friends . I have had to give up my job for this reason . Every time I see a fit guy I get some sort of groinal response or part erection . I’m guessing because of my anxiety this is not a fulll erection . I’m 36 years , and have always been in straight relationships . If anyone mentions ‘bisexual ‘, I get extremely anxious . I’ve read about people with HOCD who have turned out to be gay and I’m wondering if I am one of them as the thoughts have been with me for so long . I am quite suicidal about being gay and have done so much research about suicide to the point of actually obtaining the means . A therapist said it’s because of society that makes me fear so much to accept these thoughts and if I was on Mars forever with just 1 guy by myself , would I accept being gay . So this leads me to ask whether I should be seeing an LGBT therapist or OCD. I am a very anxious person…
Justin,
My most immediate concern is that you are having suicidal thoughts and have obtained the means of killing yourself. If you are seriously intending to kill or harm yourself, I STRONGLY encourage you to go to your local emergency room. Suicide is an unnecessary and permanent solution to the very treatable problem of having HOCD.
Nothing you write sounds like you are gay. The thoughts of being gay obviously make you very uncomfortable, and it seems to me that the most likely reason is that you have HOCD.
Your therapist sounds like they know nothing about HOCD, and I encourage you to seek qualified treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD with Cognitive Behavioral therapy (CBT) focusing a specific CBT technique called Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).
Dear Tom,
I’m 22, I have struggled with some thoughts whether or not I might be gay, but now I came across something far worse.
I started thinking that it would be good to be a woman, because they are beautiful and emotional and have beautiful bodies. It would be nice to have one. Then I noticed that sometimes a thought of having a female body and ability to experience sex as a woman turns me on – so called autogynehilia. So I started worrying that I might be trans at first, which might be groundless, but the second thought is not an intrusive one. I really am curious of having sexual experience as a woman (not with the men though), and the only option on acting on this fantasy is becoming a trans – which i don’t want, because I don’t want to be a freak, I don’t want to look like a manly lady, don’t want to lose my friends and family. And the worst part is that those reasons come to mind first, not “female gender doesn’t suit me” – I don’t really know, looks like it does in a sexual way.
I don’t remember having any kind of dysphoria as a child, yet I was always more focused on how woman feels when I saw porn/had sex. What the hell is wrong with me?
Alexey,
Nothing is “wrong” with you – what you are describing is textbook Trans OCD. Besides, why shouldn’t you be curious about what it is like to experience female sexuality? That seems like a very reasonable thing to be curious about. And if that is sexually arousing, so what!
You also suggest that you believe the only way to respond to this fantasy is to act on it, which seems wholly inaccurate to me. You have another option, which is to allow the fantasy to remain a fantasy. People are not required to act on every thought they have.
Tom, thanks for an answer
Well, my logic is that my sexual arousals define my sexuality, don’t they?
And concerning fantasies – yes, they might stay fantasies, of course, but when it leaves a feeling of unfulfillment. It’s like having a dream and not pursuing it – what’s the point then? Same here, I feel like if I don’t act on a fantasy I feel unsatisfied, feel like I don’t get enough.
Alexey,
Sexual orientation is NOT determined by arousal. I assure you that if you masturbate while looking at an old shoe, you will get aroused. It is the masturbation that would cause that arousal, not the old shoe.
Also, EVERYBODY has fantasies that they don’t act on. Where on Earth did you get the idea that humans are supposed to act on their every dream or fantasy?
At this point I’m losing it, I can’t cope anymore. I feel I either need to transition or suicide. It’s not simple intrusions. My mental voice is female – whenever I imagine having a conversation or want to sing along to a song I imagine doing it with a female voice 90% of the time. I love that voice, I want to dissolve in it, and when I actually open my mouth and hear my voice I feel discord, anger, self-disgust. Whenever I imagine doing anything (or I am actually doing anything) I imagine a girl doing it, her arms or legs, her grace, and instead of wanting to be with her like before, I want to be HER. I want to feel her body from inside. Whenever I see porn I have phantom feelings in my mouth or anus and I imagine how a girl feels and want to take her place cause it looks sexy and very satisfying instead of wanting ti have sex with her.
My loneliness driven me away from girls, made me create one from myself in my head and I don’t see the way back, and largely I don’t want to. But that leads me to transsexuality, I always feel that dreams are not enough and I want these feelings for real, but I’m scared shitless of transition. I’m living in my head, l love it and hate it…
Ando,
You suggest that there are only two options, and I disagree. A third option is to accept the existence of the unwanted thoughts (including thoughts you have about the female voice inside you) and feelings, without taking those thoughts and feelings seriously. Your life is not determined by thoughts and feelings, but by actions. In other words, what matters most is what you do.
I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in ERP for OCD. There is no reason to suffer so much. And if you are genuinely suicidal, I strongly encourage you to go to your local emergency room immediately.
Hi Doctor.
Deep down I’m sure i have hocd, but my head keeps telling me that these thoughts are real and what i really want.
Ever since i was a little boy I’ve had crushes on girls. And only girls. Ever since i hit puberty I’ve had the issue of getting highly aroused when I’m hugging, holding hands with, kissing, playing with/teasing, or even just talking to a girl that i have a crush on or find attractive. Im 24 and up until this latest episode about 2 weeks ago, getting erect whilst round a girl i like would still happen all the time.
I went through another terrible episode about 2 years ago and got through it eventually. I even recall once the episode was over, being on a date with a girl and getting an erection that lasted the entire evening. I went to the bathroom and laughed at the idea that i had previously worried that I wasn’t straight because it was so damn obvious that i was!
Since this latest episode, my issue is that my brain is NOW telling me that I didn’t get any of those erections because of the girls i was with, but because of some guy in the room that i had seen, no matter how unattractive!
I now always check for movement in my groin and if i feel…
Ben,
A few thoughts…
Ah, to be young again…You had an erection that lasted all night while on a date with a girl. I doubt that would happen to any gay guys while hanging out with a girl.
You are correct – your brain is telling you that you get your erections because of some guy in the room, even though there is absolutely no evidence to support this. That is how OCD works.
Stop checking your groin for arousal. This is a checking compulsion that is making your OCD worse.
Let your penis do whatever it wants without analyzing whether it is responding in a manner you don’t like.
Hi, Dr. Tom! I need help. I see many people have OCD and these treatments you mention help only those with thoughts. What treatment do you suggest I do when it involves guilt feeling but not only by thoughts. When I was an adolescent I was led to believe I was gay by something that happened to me, later I did something, it was not sex, but I feel extremely anxious and suicidal all the time. When I think about having a girlfriend all of these come up and the guilt feeling is monstruous and debilitating. What kind of therapy should I use? Could I have therapy by chat only instead of Skype? I suffer from social phobia which increases my shame and makes it all a lot harder to do therapy even by skype! Please, what should I do? Is ERP for me? Should I think about what bothers me oftenly to overcome it? I feel bad when I am around people and they don´t know I had these things, feel inferior and anxiety hits be brutally. What to do if I don´t have the means to do therapy online either? Can I try it alone? Thanks for you answers!
Richard,
Your comments about the past event are somewhat vague, soI cannot provide advice as to whether they are guilt-worthy. Assuming the last was a consensual act, I see no reason for guilt. That said, people feel guilt about all sorts of things, so if this is a problem for you (and it clearly is), then I encourage you to seek counseling, preferably with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD with ERP.
Hi Tom,
I really appreciate u getting back to me, bless you . My problem which I can’t seem to understand is how can having obsessions about oral sex with men , accompanied with arousal not mean I’m gay? How did u get from gay to OCD ? Just want to know why u think this is the case becos my mind is screaming denial . I have started ERP but the arousal from doing exposures has made me stop doing ERP.
Thanks
Justin
Justin,
Getting aroused by sexual ideas is what humans do. But homosexuals do not get freaked out by the fact that they have thoughts about blowing other guys – they like the idea. If you were gay, then you would almost certainly find the arousal to be pleasant and exciting, and you would want to go meet guys. But that does not sound like what you are experiencing. Instead you are upset enough to search for articles about HOCD and write in about how these thoughts upset you and how you fear you are in denial. That’s how I “get from gay to OCD”.
When you say that you stopped ERP because of your arousal related to the exposures, you are proving my point. If you were gay, you would enjoy that arousal. But you dislike it so much that you stop doing the behavior that leads to the arousal. Gay people like the idea of arousal related to sex (or even just the idea of sex) with others of the same gender. So your abandonment or ERP seems to me to be further evidence that you have HOCD.
And btw, it sounds like you are doing self-administered ERP. I encourage you to do ERP only under the guidance a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
Hi,
I’ve always felt that I’ve suffered from OCD, this used to take the form of checking light switches, doors were locked and checking round the house at night to make sure it was secure repeatedly. I entered a relationship with a girl at the age of 18, but soon found myself plagued with thoughts that I did not love her, she wasn’t the right partner for me. I ended up breaking up with her which is when I was suddenly hit with the thought of ‘What if I am gay?’.
Since 2014, I have been plagued by this question in my daily life – I feel like I’m in denial, I get weird groinal sensations, I’ve masturbated to test myself and end up feeling though I’m aroused by the thoughts. I’m incredibly worried I’ll act on these thoughts, I feel as though I’m just gay and firmly in denial about my sexual orientation, I always feel nervous around guys on the street and my interest in girls has plummeted from where it was in 2014. I genuinely do not know if I’m struggling with OCD or not anymore, am I using OCD as an excuse for denial about my sexuality?
I have also had previous worries about being a paedophile, transgender, sending inappropriate emails to colleagues and…
Paul,
This all sounds like OCD to me. More specifically, it sounds like you have been going through both HOCD and ROCD, which is a very common experience. I encourage you to read our article “Doubt, Denial, and OCD”, as it addresses the very concerns you are experiencing. And stop testing yourself. Of course you are getting aroused when masturbating!
Hi Tom,
Thank you for the response. Since I first dropped this message, my HOCD (I hope) is back with a vengeance. One night, when I was at an incredibly low point, I tried to talk dirty with a gay friend to test whether I was aroused by the thought of having gay sex. I was afraid but also felt aroused as well, but I soon realised I was testing myself and ended that conversation. Since then, I continue to believe that I am sexually attracted to this gay friend, masturbating to thoughts to test this arousal, and thinking about having sex with him to test for arousal too. I always feel a mixture of fear and arousal, which makes me afraid that this is no longer HOCD but simply me in denial. I’m at an incredibly low ebb, and after three years of this, just need some clarity.
Thanks.
Paul,
While your desire for “clarity” is common, there is no way I or anyone else can provide you with such a thing, as “clarity” in this case is really a request for “certainty”, which does not exist. Your goal is to accept the presence of unwanted thoughts without over-valuing them. They are after all just thoughts, and they don’t automatically mean anything. For example, right now I am having a thought of flying to Pluto. This thought is not particularly important, nor does it reflect anything that is likely to occur.
That said, ANY testing, whether it be sex talk, masturbation, online searching about HOCD, etc., is compulsive, and only makes things worse (as you have learned the hard way). Stop doing compulsions, and over time you will likely see a significant reduction in obsessions.
Finally, I suggest you read our article Doubt Denial, and OCD.
Hello there. So for the past two weeks I’ve been really freaking out about this issue of HOCD. I’m 23 years old and in a loving and happy relationship with a beautiful girl (I’m a male) and before this stuff popped into my head, I was the happiest man in the world. I’ve been confident in my heterosexuality, even to the point where recognizing another man’s attractiveness never bothered me, nor did I pay too much attention to it, and my first crush was on a girl in the first grade. But I remember as a child (age 6 – 7 area) I had a homosexual experience that has left me with nothing but guilt and wishing it never happened. When my mind went back there, the thought was “what if I’ve been gay this whole time and didn’t even know it?” That sent me through a loop of anxiety and depression (I couldn’t eat or sleep) that has been with me since. Now I’m too afraid to look at the same sex and I keep doubting my past and my current relationship. Another issue is sometimes the thought of being gay doesn’t seem too scare or bother me anymore, which puts me in tears because I can’t live a life without my beautiful fiance and it really scares me and the panic starts. Any help?
Dakota,
You bring up two misconceptions that often fuel HOCD:
1) That childhood homosexual experimentation somehow means one is gay.
2) That if one is not freaked out about the thought of being gay, then they must secretly be gay.
Both of these issues, and a host of other issues about HOCD, are addressed in our article HOCD: 30 Things You Need To Know, which I encourage you to read.
Hello Tom,
I believe I’ve been suffering from HOCD (or something very much like it) on and off since I was thirteen. I’m twenty-two now, and the thoughts and feelings about being gay/bi have come back with a vengeance.
This bout started when I masturbated to the thought of having sex with an attractive female friend. I enjoyed it, but afterwards, thoughts of “Why did I do that?” “Why did I enjoy that?” “Oh my god, did I just realize I’m gay or bi?” flooded my mind. Ever since then, I’ve been having several anxiety attacks and intrusive thoughts and feelings about being with another woman.
I’ve had sexual fantasies about women before, but while I enjoyed them, I never thought I wanted to be with a woman in real life. I’ve had several romantic and sexual relationships with men, and while they haven’t all worked out, I’ve enjoyed them and never questioned my sexuality before. The one exception was a time during high school, but even then I still felt crazy about my boyfriend.
Hi Meg,
People fantasize about (and masturbate to) all sorts of things that they would never actually want to do in real life. And of course you enjoyed it – you were masturbating! You could masturbate while thinking about a plate full of mashed potatoes, and it would still feel good. That would not mean that you secretly want to have sex with potatoes. Allow yourself mohave whatever fantasies you want without assuming they are important and accurate reflections of what you actually want to do.
Hi Doctor, excuse my English, i’m French.PLEASE help.i hope I have HOCD.I have been having intrusive thoughts that i’m a lesbian for years now.I’m a woman married and i love my husband with all my heart. Always been i relationship with man, always wanted to date/love/attracted to man.Love sex with man.One day someone made a comment and it scared me, since than i have been in a constant fear that i’m gay. My mind keeps telling me that i’m a lesbian or that i want to be one.The word lesbian pops un my head all the time and you’re gay also. I DON’t want to be a lesbian, i don’t want to be with a woman. Now I feel like a look more at women than men on the street.I always check to see if I’m attracted to women or men, it’s a constant battle in my head.I can see if a women is good looking are not, but i don’t want to be in a relationship with one.I want to be with my husband.I DO almost all the checking/reassurance on the list.I check 23 items on the HOCD test.I’ve never been diagnosed with OCD, but younger I thought I sold my soul so I prayed in a ritualize manner until it felt right and I use to wash my face in a ritualize manner b/c I was afraid of acne. Is it HOCD?
Hi Kat,
Everything you write strongly suggests that you have HOCD. This is further supported by the fact that you checked 23 items on our free online HOCD test.
Furthermore, your history of compulsive praying in response to obsessions of selling your soul sounds very much like Scrupulosity OCD. It is very common for people with a history of one sub-type of OCD to also experience other types. This is especially true for those who struggle with variants of Pure Obsessional OCD (Pure O), such as HOCD and Scrupulosity.
I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD. If you are open to online therapy, please feel free to contact us via our website at https://ocdla.com.
Hello Dr Corboy,
Sorry to bother you again,but i have a question regarding my intrusive thoughts. When the HOCD started, the thoughts were always, am i gay, what if i am a lesbian and so on. Now it’s more in form of statement, like “you are gay”, “you are a lesbian” , “you are so gay”, “you looked at that women, you are gay” things like that. So i’m wondering is that still intrusive thoughts? When these thoughts pops in my head, i feel a rush of anxiety, i can’t speak, think, concentrate and i feel like i want to cry. It’s so frustrating, it’s like my brain is against me. I feel like i’m the only one like that, and that makes me doubt that i have HOCD and that i’m in denial. Thank you again for your time and sorry again for my English.
Kat,
This line of questioning is no different from the four other comments you have posted on this and other articles on our blog. You are seeking reassurance and proof that you what you are experiencing is actually OCD. I encourage you to read our article “Doubt, Denial and OCD”.
Hi Tom, I think I have been going through this since Sep 2016. I’m 25 & all my life I had obsessed over girls & never had a sexual attraction to a guy. I have never watched gay porn & I don’t intend to. But I cant shake this anxiety or the fear of being gay. I am analyzing the way I talk, walk & my past and test myself imagining both genders sexually which I currently feel nothing for. I have a girlfriend of 5 years I was planning to propose to & start a family with, we have sex no problem but this is making me doubt everything I want & have ever wanted and if I even love her. I am experiencing less anxiety about any intrusive thought I get which makes me worry I’m slowly accepting what I fear. When I am around friends, things will be good then I will start thinking that I need to come out to them because I feel like I’m gay now. I have always been uncomfortable around gay people & have always had high social anxiety which is unhelpful but I tend to question everything I do & everything that I am. I had this for the first time 3 years ago when my girlfriends cousin came out but it only lasted two weeks. I spend hours searching ‘HOCD or gay’ daily for reassurance.
Sam,
A few thoughts…
1) You wrote: “I am analyzing the way I talk, walk & my past and test myself imagining both genders”
Analyzing and testing are compulsions that will only make your OCD worse.
2) You wrote: “I have a girlfriend of 5 years I was planning to propose to & start a family with, we have sex no problem but this is making me doubt everything I want & have ever wanted and if I even love her.”
This particular obsessions sounds very much like Relationship OCD (ROCD), which quite often accompanies HOCD.
3) You wrote: “I am experiencing less anxiety about any intrusive thought I get which makes me worry I’m slowly accepting what I fear.”
This is extremely common in HOCD, and is called a “backdoor spike”. You can read more about this in our article HOCD: 30 Things You Need to Know.
4) You wrote: “I spend hours searching ‘HOCD or gay’ daily for reassurance.”
Again, this is a compulsion that will only make things worse.
Your job is to stop doing these compulsions, and to accept the presence of the mental noise your brain produces without taking it so seriously. These are just thoughts (and not particularly important ones).
A 21 yearoldgirl with a boyfriend whomI don’t want to lose.My life feltpretty perfect before all this anxiety kicked in.my first crush wason a boy.Ihad abeautiful childhood.When I was about10,I googled “hot guys”found lesbianvideos.I found them arousingand watchedthem&masturbated.Thiswasmysecret and it made mefeel guilty after watching them.I always wanted a boyfriend,had crushes. Ihave a close relationship with my mom,&when I was about 18,shesaid that her friend’s daughter was lesbian, and that is whenI startedhaving panic attacks when someone would mention that word. I was scared to have those same reactions,which I did.ThenI had myboyfriend,everything felt great,justhad those same reactions just when someone would mention.Ihad my anxiety attackthis summer bc a mansaid he could watch my thoughts, and I haven’t been able to stop obsessing.Iobsessed over liking kids,and now I amworried bc I remembered that when I was 9,I found awaitress sexuallyattractive, and felt weird after.Iwish I knewif it was just normal pubertyhormones,if this before or after watching those videos, if that was normal? I keep wanting2 advance,but that memory wont let me bc it makes me doubt if this is…
All of this sounds like OCD.
Hi,
I am 21. I am doing a school project on gay women. One night while I was thinking about the project I had the thought “I am gay”. I panicked. Ever since, I cannot stop thinking about it (from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep). Growing up, I always had crushes on boys and I’ve never been attracted to a girl. I always had a strong desire to have a boyfriend, but I only dated a guy a few months. I use to justify my lack of experience on my shyness, but now I question everything. Could I have not known I was gay because I never been in a relationship? I am also sad/angry because I feel like I lost interest in men. I now look at attractive men but I feel nothing. I look at women to check if I am attract to them, but it seems like I cannot tell ! Someone told me about sexual fluidity (your orientation could change throughout your life) and that kind of freaked me out. Could this actually happen ? Also, I do a lot of researches on OCD, but I don’t feel “compelled” to do it. Is this still a compulsion ? It has been a month since the whole thing started so now I am not even anxious anymore just exhausted. Anyway, thank you for reading this !
Laura,
Just because you don’t have much experience with men does not mean you are gay. It means you don’t have much experience with men – nothing more, nothing less. Your comment provides no evidence whatsoever that you are gay, and lots of evidence that you are a shy girl who likes boys, but doesn’t have lots of romantic/sexual experience with them.
Checking to see if you are attracted to women is a compulsion that will make you miserable. Besides gay people don’t go around testing to see if they are attracted to others of the same gender in order to prove to themselves that they are gay (unless they have OCD). The only people who do that are people with HOCD.
Likewise, doing a lot of research on OCD is something that only people with OCD do. The average person without OCD has no interest whatsoever in researching OCD. I people without OCD express some interest in researching the topic, they generally do so for a short time and then get interested in something else.
I encourage you to stop researching and stop checking to see who you find attractive.
Hello, I think I am suffering the same way. One night before an important exam I had a situation where I started analysing my love life. I always liked guys, i have had my crushes but my dates were poor and lets say I never had to have a stable relationship so therefore I am a virgin. Some images that night interfered and I could not sleep. My brain could not stop thinking about the fact that I was a lesbian. I started crying and I could not make it stop. Next day i was feeling so anxious and numb. I could not see my friend anymore or stay nearby her, neither skype to my best friend(she is a girl). Two days after I got to know this guy with whom I feel physically good but these thoughts come and pop up in my mind next days, especially mornings or in every single situation of stress I experience. I read somewhere that it can be HOCD but still I am having such a bad time. It has affected my life. Now i do not know, if to whom I am sexually aroused to. I cannot see myself married or with kids. It is affecting my social skills and sometimes everything seems so dark. Even if i try to accept it and tell my self that I am i get scared if it interferes in my dreams when I imagine myself so
Ally,
All of this sounds like classic HOCD. Further, avoiding your female friends is a compulsion that will only make your OCD worse. I encourage you to view these thoughts as just thoughts, to spend time with your female friends, and to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
Hi,
I am a 39 year old woman who has had hocd since I was 11 years old. I’ve only ever dated men and only want to be straight. I have been doing well with the hocd until last November when I had a dream where I asked a dream figure “am I a lesbian?, and he said “yes, you’ve been in denial…you’ve been too scared to admit it.”
This dream has terrified me so much that I attempted suicide a month ago. I am so scared that this is definitive proof that my subconscious is saying I’m gay and that it must be true. I realize that sexual content dreams are symbolic and don’t mean what they appear, however my dream was not symbolic with sexual content but straight out said I was a lesbian in denial. I have never heard of someone with ocd having this exact type of dream where they were actually TOLD they were gay directly. Have you ever heard of this direct type of dream with Ocd?
Thanks
Kristen,
Unfortunately, many people believe that their dreams carry some important secret data that is being transmitted to them directly from their hidden subconscious. So let me be as clear as possible: dreams do not mean anything important. They are not a secret message – they are just weird thoughts that occur while we are asleep (not all that different from the many weird thoughts we experience when we are awake). Yes, there are many people, including many therapists, who will tell you that your dreams carry special secret meanings. They are wrong.
Hi Doctor,I am 26 year old.I have been suffering from OCD for last 12 years.But for last five years I have been suffering from HOCD.Actually I have came to know about HOCD by this blog.It is great.Now coming to my problem:I have some same sex experiments with my school friend when I was 12 years old.This was only each other’s genital touching and petting(But not mutual mastrubation).Every school friends of my age did that.After this incident I sometimes have fantasized about that friend at the time of mastrubation.But I felt this for very short time.And I have completely forgotten this all things.But 5 years ago in a friends reunion one of my friends started talking all about this childhood memories in a fun way.And from that time HOCD have been existing in my mind.And my symptoms are:I always feel guilt,I start hating me,And most unpleasant things are I always see some image of that particular friends on and over my sex organ every moment and feel some pseudo sensation and some dirty taboo thoughts and so more.But I am only attracted to opposite sex.But I can’t get rid of all of these.This have ruined my whole life.I want your valuable reply.
Alone,
Many, many people experiment with their sexuality when they are kids, often with members of the same sex. Unfortunately, many people with OCD interpret this experimentation to mean thatchy are secretly gay, which is nonsense. Same sex childhood experimentation does not mean they are gay – it means they were typical curious kids. I encourage you to read our article “HOCD: 30 Things You Need to Know”, which addresses this and other myths surrounding HOCD.
Hey Tom, thank you for your article. This really is great. I’ve been dealing with HOCD for a few months now, or what I believe to be HOCD. I’ve been getting better at resisting the need to do compulsions however sometimes my ancient is so bad that I feel like I have to. I had a pretty troubling moment happen where I was with my family on vacation and I could tell that my anxiety was kicking in because I could feel the nagging doubt of the OCD. I turned around and saw a male who was attractive looking. I’m heterosexual and have always been oriented towards women but I will notice normally when a male is an attractive looking human being. Anyways my mind told me that I wasn’t actually attracted to that person and I felt like a shock with nervous anxiety/butterflies go to my stomach. I immediately started to freak out because I thought I just had a gay realization. I have always been naturally attracted to women, it doesn’t require a second thought. It is natural. However when this happened, it didn’t feel natural but my mind told me that’s what I wanted from now on and that I’m a repressed homosexual. My question is, is this false attraction due to OCD and is this common?
Lee,
Yes, this experience is extremely common in HOCD. That said, I can tell you have been reading a lot of articles about this so-called “false attraction” in OCD, because the only place this topic is ever mentioned is in articles about OCD! In other words, people without OCD do not have, nor do they worry about, false attractions!
That feeling of butterflies in your stomach was likely anxiety related to the thought, not pangs of desire. This was not a gay realization, but rather anxiety related to the unwanted thought.
Thank you for your article. I have been doing okay dealing with my HOCD but now I’m fully convinced that I’m a gay person who knows his true feelings but is in denial. I got a text from an old friend who I will admit is attractive for a male, even though my whole life I have only naturally sought relationships with females. as soon as I saw his name on my phone I immediately got a sinking feeling in my stomach. I used to want to hang out with him a lot in high school and be like him because he got a lot of girls. My brain is telling me that the reason I wanted to be friends with him is because I secretly had feelings for and that now I’m discovering and putting a meaning behind those feelings. At this point, I feel like a bomb went off in my head. I became extremely anxious and began noticing that my mind and body were not resisting the thoughts. My body became increasingly anxious and I felt like I wanted to throw up. In my head, I was thinking that this is my gay realization and the whole suffering of HOCD was just a pathway to me discovering that I’m somehow Gay. I feel freaked out I still have anxiety and I still have doubt. Compulsions won’t relieve this anxiety.
Carter,
Nothing here suggests that you are “in denial”. It is quite common for OCD to wax and wane. So while you may have been doing okay with your HOCD, now it has come back with a vengeance. All that means is that you have been triggered, in this case by your friend’s call. Nothing about your sexual orientation has changed. The only thing that has changed is your HOCD has once again reared its ugly head. I encourage you to read our article “Doubt, Denial and OCD”.
Thanks for your article. I believe what I have is OCD, specifically HOCD for about three months now. The only reason I still believe that this is OCD and that I am not in denial about my sexuality is that I briefly went from HOCD to Trans OCD back to HOCD. My thoughts and obsessions are in my head for every hour of every day. It feels like every minute they are in my head. Is this normal? I feel like if I tell my loved ones that I’m gay, even though I’ve never wanted to be with a man, that it’ll all be over? This stuff never stops nagging me.
John,
A few thoughts…
1) It is not particularly unusual for people with HOCD to have other sexual obsessions, including Trans OCD.
2) It is quite common for people with OCD to feel overwhelmed by near-constant unwanted thoughts.
3) You say you have “never wanted to be with a man”, so why on earth would you tell your loved ones that you are gay. If anything, you might want to tell them you have OCD, and request their assistance in find qualified treatment.
Our article “Doubt, Denial, and OCD” might be of help to you. I also suggest you read our article “HOCD: 30 Things You Need to Know”.
Hello, my name is Anastasia.
I have had HOCD since I was 11, though I have also struggled with Health related OCD and occasionally, contamination OCD. Hopefully this question doesn’t come off as reassurance seeking, but I was wondering why my HOCD is the strongest of my obsessions. To me, at least, the health related obsessions and contamination obsessions are triggered by events or coincidences that make sense. For example, my contamination obsession was triggered by getting severe food poisioning, so it seemed reasonable to throughly check to make sure my good was properly cooked (often times it would be overcooked) and being deathly afraid of getting ill again, but perhaps I took it too far. My health related OCD was triggered by the occurrence of odd symptoms (such as changes in stool shape and color, abdominal pain, etc…) and my checking seemed reasonable, though I know I took it this a little far as well. The fear of having colon cancer was mortifying.
But these fears seem more reasonable than HOCD. I know I’m straight and have no intention of pursuing dame-sex relationships, though this logic is often skewed when I’m panicking. HOCD seems to make the least sense…
Anastasia,
It is not unusual for someone to have multiple strains of OCD, and for one of those strains to be the primary, or most frightening issue for them. Furthermore, it is not unusual for the focus of OCD to switch. So while HOCD may currently be the thing that causes you the most distress, that could change at any time.
The bottom line is that all of these variants are just different flavors of OCD.
Hi, i’m fighting HOCD since 4 months ago. l have always be straight and never wanted anything with guy, also my all chrushes were girls.. But my problems seriously started when l find out that gay people have specific face (bigger jaws, smaller nose etc.) and l think l have these facial characteristics and lt freaks me out.. Does it mean something, is this so important or l’m just trippin’?
Filo,
There is no reason to give even the slightest credence to this ridiculous theory that facial characteristics are related to sexual orientation. I’m sure there are millions of people around the world who have big jaws and small noses who are straight.
Hi there,
Thank you for the article, it was a good read. I have personally been dealing with unwanted sexual thoughts and a huge fear that I am turning lesbian. These thoughts are affecting how I am around others and do affect me in an unwanted physical way as well. I have never questioned my sexuality before and I am very concerned that these thoughts will ruin the great relationship that I have with my boyfriend, who I am sexually attracted to. I would never imagine myself in a relationship with a woman. Please help, these thoughts are tearing me apart.
Ariana,
Thoughts do not have the power to ruin your relationship. They are just thoughts. The only thing related to these thoughts that can ruin your relationship is your behavior. I encourage you to act lovingly towards your boyfriend, despite the presence of these unwanted thoughts. In other words, act exactly as you would act if you did not have these thoughts.
Hi there. I found this page very useful. Here is my story.
Last year I went to see a therapist because of physical issues and social anxiety. I tried to pick 2 therapists close to me but they were not available so I went to see a third therapist. I saw him for a couple of sessions and he just asked me “I know that this may be a source of anxiety for you but where do you see yourself sexually?” Thing is, I’d experimented a bit when I was a child and teen but got girlfriends after and didn’t worry about it again. But he really attacked me and pointed towards me being in the closet. He also pointed to towards my physical issues as a source of my mental ones. Thus I put 2 and 2 together and started to freak out about my sexuality. Now I have the groin response and loosing a lot of my attraction to women, even messed up a relationship because of the anxiety. I even get some POCD now. When my anxiety is at its worst I feel VERY uncomfortable around children.
Are you able to say something on the subject of diminished attraction towards the opposite sex please? I kind of guessed that having such anxiety would obviously mean this.
Thanks
Anonymous,
A few thoughts…
1) It is quite common for therapists to explore issues of sexuality with their clients. I doubt this was an “attack”, though it sounds like you have interpreted it as one.
2) That said, it is also quite common for therapist who don’t understand OCD to assume that unwanted obsessions about sexual orientation indicate that a client is in the closet. Unfortunately, lots of therapists are clueless when it comes to OCD.
3) Many, many kids and teens experiment with same sex behavior. It doesn’t mean you are gay – it means you were once young and curious.
4) Groinal responses are not worth analysis. I encourage you to read our article HOCD: 30 Things You Need to Know to get more insight on this.
5) Diminished attraction in HOCD is often a function of the individual over-attending to their feelings of attraction, and then over-valuing what the alleged diminished attraction means. Additionally, the anxiety that comes with HOCD often makes people feel less sexually attracted to people of their desired gender, though this is likely also at least partially a function of the over-attending and over-valuing. The bottom line is that the alleged lack of attraction is similar to the groinal response in that analyzing it is counter-productive, and only makes the OCD worse.
I just want to know if trying to rationalize the thoughts is a compulsion?
I try and rationalize why I am having the thoughts, and why it is no big deal. Like it is finding a solution why it was okay to have the thought be it HOCD or POCD.
I caught myself rationalizing and I questioned why I was trying to defend my thoughts.
I have very little anxiety now. Just little spikes here and there. I am trying to just sit with the thoughts and not think things like what I always been attracted too in the past. But my mind wanders. I can’t tell if the thoughts are mine like if I am purposely bringing the thoughts up or theyjust pop up on their own.
Sandy,
Yes, rationalizing one’s thoughts is a compulsion, and it will only worsen your OCD. Likewise, trying to figure out if you are purposely bringing up your thoughts, or if they are popping up on their own is also a compulsion. You derive no benefit from analyzing the nature or origin of your thoughts.
Hi,
I am 25 years old and have been dealing with HOCD for four months. This all started with the idea/fear of being gay in my mind and could not let this ago. The OCD has impacted every area of my life including my thoughts, relationship, work, and my day to day living.
I am constantly worrying about my sexual orientation and carrying out compulsions to see if I am attracted to the same sex. I have been attending counseling and been practicing mindfulness and it has helped me improve, but I still have the nagging doubt.
I feel as if I do not control over the thoughts in mind. Also does HOCD cause sleep insomia? I have written on this post before but my comment did not appear. I guess I am looking for certainty that I am not gay but the thoughts feel as if they are real caused by HOCD.
Thank you,
Jonathan,
A few thoughts….
1) Compulsions don’t work. In the long run, they only make OCD worse.
2) You do not have control over the thoughts in your mind. Nobody does. Thoughts come and go unbidden. Your job is to accept their presence without taking them so seriously. They are just thoughts.
3) HOCD doesn’t cause insomnia per se, but HOCD includes a lot of anxiety, which for many leads to insomnia.
4) There is no certainty. Pursuit of it will make you miserable.
Hi there,
For a few days now I have been worried that I have a crush on my female best friend, I am also a female and I have a boyfriend who I love so much. Can HOCD make you have “fake” feelings for the same gender? I would never picture myself in a relationship with her and I have been dealing with HOCD related thoughts prior to these thoughts for about a month now. I just want to know if I will improve and that these thoughts and feelings are not real, since I don’t want them to be. These thoughts are uncomfortable but feel so real, please help. Thank you.
Anonymous,
Those “fake feelings” you describe are par for the course with HOCD. The good news is that you have only had these obsessions for a few days, so they may pass with no real effort required. If not, I encourage you to seek out a consultation with an OCD therapist.
Hi,
I am a girl. Mysituation is different. From age 16 to 19 I suffered with thoughts I might be gay. I would convince myself I wasn’t by telling myself that if I got this piece of paper in the trash, I am straight, etc. I did this with a lot of things. At 18 I talked to my mom for reassurance that I wasn’t gay. She is very homophobic and convinced me that I wasn’t. I went to college (while still living with my family) flirted with guys at school, and I suppressed my feelings. Went on dates with guys in my early 20’s, never felt anything. I only had minor crushes on guys but nothing major. Decided to start dating women at age 26 and when I kissed a woman it felt so right, like I was on cloud 9! Since then I have only dated women and I feel so infatuated and obsessed when I really like a woman. When I was in my late teens though and early 20’s I did not want to be gay. I know accept that I am bi. Although, i accidentally stumbled upon this notion of HOCD and I it has freaked me out because these thoughts are what I had when I was younger, and now I am scared that I was straight all along cuz I hated the idea of being gay!
Nora,
Everything you write suggests that you are a lesbian who struggles with obsessions about her sexual orientation. You could even call this “HOCD in reverse”, but for the sake of simplicity, let’s just call it Sexual Orientation OCD. This is addressed near the beginning of this article. I do not even see an indication of being bi in what you report. Furthermore, you do not sound like you hate being gay – in fact you report that it feels “so right”, and you report that you “never felt anything” when you tried dating guys.
My main suggestion is that you stop paying so much attention to these preposterous thoughts that you are secretly straight. Your mother’s views of sexuality needn’t limit how you experience your love life.
Thank you for your response. I just noticed it now. Honestly I do believe I am bi because I have an attraction to men, I am more physically attracted to men even more so than women, I feel like I can have a connection to a man but it just has never happened yet. I guess I just wanted to be sure that I don’t actually have HOCD where I am actually straight but in denial. Thank you again for your response. I just have to accept my sexuality because I was raised very religiously and my mother is struggling with this very much. I officially came out in May and haven’t seen my mother in 2.5 months. I hope things will get better. Thanks again for your reply.
Nora,
I see nothing in what you write that suggests you are in denial about your sexual orientation. You report that you find both men and women attractive. While I applaud your desire accept your sexuality, I also reiterate that your mother needn’t be a factor. Your sex life is for you, not her. If she doesn’t like it, that is her problem.
Have people with HOCD ever acted on their impulses thinking that will give them an answer?
Sam,
Some people with HOCD act on their thoughts in an effort to ascertain if they are in fact gay. This is essentially a compulsive reassurance seeking compulsion which ALWAYS backfires in that the sufferer becomes even more confused about their sexual orientation. A better option is to accept the presence of unwanted thoughts without reacting to them as if they are important.
I am thinking to times I may have had intrusive thoughts and did not react to them. But rather I wrote them down in the way of roleplaying them. I have a bad habit of writing my thoughts into words and actions (It’s why I cannot listen to music while I write or I will write the lyrics into the sentence, or when I am writing paragraph of something then write something different because that word popped up that was not supposed to go in that sentence)
And now I am regretting it both for HOCD and POCD. Wondering why I had those idea’s for it and tried to write the action out…I can think of when I caught myself and wondered why I was doing it. Then I pushed it all away and went back to doing normal writing. Now that the thoughts of bothering me it is bringing those times up as proof.
I am bothered by the thoughts but little anxiety anymore. So bothered has to mean something.
Sara,
Writing things down is not “proof” that you are anything. It simply means you wrote about it. If writing about something is proof that you want to do that thing, then Stephen King is a mass murderer…
That said, it does sound like your writing is a compulsion. There is no legitimate reason that you “must” write something that pops into your mind. I encourage you to let thoughts appear in your mind without then incorporating those thoughts into whatever you are writing.
Having a thought, and no loner being as anxious about that thought as you once were, does NOT mean the the e thought “mean something” important. It just means you had a thought.
this website is amazing. i am a 27 yr old female. i have been suffering from hOCD for about a year now, as well as other OCD thoughts. when i have the other OCD thoughts, the HOCD doesn’t even register with me/bother me and i can shrug it off, knowing it isn’t true. up until a year ago i was boy-mad when one day i was looking at a picture of my boyfriend’s ex and thought to myself, oh she is pretty and then i got the dreaded thought ‘what if I’m a lesbian’ and HOCD took hold from there 🙁 i still wanted to sleep with my boyfriend and have always been attracted to men, however since this HOCD obviouslty i begin to doubt whether it is actually HOCD and that I’m in denial, that I’m lying to myself and family. during the HOCD spikes i lose my attraction to guys and focus on girls like oh is she pretty etc and i avoid lesbian programmes/news articles.i just can’t be around or hear the word. i have nothing against them, but I’m scared i have become lesbian almost overnight and i didn’t know before. what should i do? my relationship with my boyfriend ended due to other reasons but now i am scared i have in fact turned lesbian as i am not as boy-mad as i was before.
Lila,
A few thoughts…
1) Noticing that another for is pretty doesn’t mean you are a lesbian.
2) Having always been attracted to men is a pretty good indicator that you are not gay.
3) Avoiding lesbian tv programs is a compulsion that is making things worse, not better.
4) People don’t magically “become lesbian overnight”.
5) You say you want advice as to what you should do, so here goes: seek help with a therapist who specializes in OCD treatment.
thanks. When i have these hocd thoughts I wince/cringe but they feel so normal in my head – its so strange. i physically hate the thoughts
This is an interesting site. I never knew about this condition and I never realised I may suffer from OCD but it’s starting to be quite obvious now. I’m a male who has always liked girls and really enjoyed the sex. Never been into boys. However, I had quite a difficult childhood which may have caused a lack of self confidence. I can obsess about health issues for ages but when friends joke about me being gay it gets under my skin and leads to HOCD. Destroys my confidence even further. I end up convinced people are talking about me being gay. It’s a debilitating paranoia.
I could cope with being gay. I see nothing wrong with it. I have gay friends. It’s just that I like girls and not guys. I was dating a girl recently and I could not stop thinking about getting her into bed. I even got an erection when taking some work photos of her. Yet why do I get triggered by people insinuating I am gay? Maybe they’re just joking, maybe they’re trying to get under my skin. Whatever the reason, it works and I end up obsessing about it and get depressed. Is there an OCD where one obsesses about what others think of you?
Dave,
You appear to believe that it actually matters what other people think of your sexual orientation. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. It matters not one bit what people think about who you want to have sex with. It’s not their business. Furthermore, I suspect that people are not spending nearly as much time thinking about your sexual orientation as you think. I am confident that virtually everybody you know has other things to do than thinking about your sex life.
I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). They should be able to help you learn a more realistic perspective towards the importance of others’ thoughts about your sexual orientation.
I´ve been diagnosed with HOCD by a specialized therapist. I am improving but I get much discomfort from physical sensations in my anus, as if I would enjoy anal sex. This also triggers unwanted thoughts. Can this be considered a groinal response? This is almost permanent. What is the right approach to these sensations?
Thanks for your posts, it is really helpful.
Manuel,
There is nothing special about unwanted anal sensations – they are exactly the same as what is commonly called “groinal response” in HOCD.
I encourage you to read our article “OCD is Fake News”, which addresses how people with OCD over-attend, over-value, and over-respond to unwanted thoughts, and in so doing, turn insignificant experiences (like a sensation in the anus) into major obsessions.
Hello, I need help.my hocd started when I was 11 years old, im 13 now .I can’t remember what triggered it, but I remember having a major anxiety attack, thinking your gay, your gay. I took are you gay tests which didn’t help. It went away and now its back and feels worse. Especially since I’ve never really been boy crazy at all (I’m a girl), but I know I’m not attracted to the same sex. My hocd is so bad, I mistake anxiety for arousal and I saw somewhere that if you are gay your scared of society more than the fact of being gay. I’m scared of society and what others would think. I always snap out of it at nighttime and think I can’t believe I thought I was gay. Now I’m paranoid that my hocd is not like everyone else’s because I mentally check myself to see if I like boys or girls. When I see myself in a relationship with a girl I feel sad, frustrated, and not right. I sit around and feel gay at times and the anxiety gets so bad it distracts me from my school work and I feel so uncomfortable.does this sound like hocd, or a deep denial. My uncertainty is so bad. I feel like if I don’t know that I will never be truly happy. I always imagined myself with a husband.
Angela,
Actually, your symptoms do NOT sound as if your HOCD “is not like everyone else’s”. In fact the symptoms you describe sound exactly like everyone else’s HOCD. I don’t see even a hint of “denial”. That said, I encourage you to read our article “Doubt, Denial and OCD”, which addresses this issue.
My whole life ive been super attracted to women sexually and romanticall, but about a month ago ive been so confused. Ive suffured from ocd, depression, and anxiety just about my whole life. Through these past 18 years ive never doubted my sexual oreintation but about a month ago i woke up on morning and had the thought that i may be gay. I mean sure i look at a guy and i think “hes good looking” or “i wish i looked like that” but now whenever i look at a guy i find myself testing to see if i find them attractive but i still have yet to see any male that way. And recently ive been losing my attraction to women. So now im barely attracted to anyone. When i look into my future i see myself with a wife and kids. Ive watched gay porn and feel disgusted and i never get turned on. When o wath straight porn i get arroused and my body does what its supposed to do but my thoughts arent the same as what they were before. It scares me unbelievably i dont want to be gay my family is all christain and id be cast out without a doubt. I wanna go back to how i was ive been going to theropy with an OCD professional but it hasnt really been helping i need help and advie.
Austin,
A few thoughts.
1) Every single thing you note here sounds like textbook HOCD.
2) Testing your self to see if you get aroused is a sure-fire way to worsen your OCD, regardless of whether you get the answer you want.
3) Your reduced libido is quite common for people with HOCD.
4) If your family believes that casting someone out if they are gay is appropriate, then they aren’t really Christian.
5) You should discuss your concerns about the lack of progress with your therapist. Are they using Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP)? If not, then they aren’t really an OCD specialist.
Hi, thank you so much for the article and responses to all the question! I’ve been struggling with hocd for long, it seemed to go away and i was happy for years but now it is back. For me it seems to be rooted to one of my childhood experiences. But my question is when reading the part about attractiveness and notion of getting “pulled in”, do you mean it is the sematics that trigger the thought process (coincidence that in english word attractive describes both a good looking person and state of wanting to be close to at the same time). In my mother language the words are not identical, but i felt the very same sensation. I thought hey thats a good looking man, and the more i thought and pictured it the more it popped up in my mind that im truly attracted / pulled into him..while i felt huge stress and anxiety at the same time. Does this represent something different and might be true attraction?
Tom,
You are over-analyzing this matter. Simply put, if you or anyone analyzes the semantics involved in the creation of desire or thoughts of desire, they are over-analyzing. This is a compulsion and will only make matters worse for you.
Let me make this a simple as possible for you. Gay people like the idea of sex with others of the same gender. Straight people like the idea of sex with people of the opposite gender. Bi people like the idea of sex with both men and woman. This is not complicated.
People without HOCD don’t analyze why they are sexually attracted to other people. They don’t get horrified by their sexual desires for other people.
Allow yourself to have whatever sexual thought pops into your head without assuming that the thought merits lots of attention.
So my HOCD started several months ago, when i was chatting with my FIancee about a transgender person on the way home, and i had asked how this person became that way and after the answer i had a question of “Am i gay?” In which my rather strange childhood experiments with my friend when i was about 8 or 9 and catfishing history as a chick on the internet but i had a fake female persona and had a fake relationship with a guy for 2 years and i would masturbate to straight porn whenever this person wanted to get sexual with me and i would walk away and watch porn. But i have never once pursued a guy in my waking life or desired to be with the same sex, but i noticed i was checking my reactions around men i couldnt talk to my guy friends or be in the same room without feeling uncomfortable, i would get massive anxiety about suddenly becoming gay and giving up my relationship and marriage, ruining my home life, etc and every so often it would go away and i would be fine only for the anxiety to return is there even anything here even remotely gay? Is thisjust OCD or something more at the time i never thought anything of these things till the OCD/anxiety kicked in and made me doubt
Josh,
Yep, it’s just OCD.
I have had other things trigger my OCD but thus far this seems to be the most troubling with it being close to my identity. It makes me feel as though i dont know who i am, makes me scared to become something i dont want to be, now if i happen to see a guy and i have an intrusive thought of he is cute or something to that extent when i dont feel anything of the sort i think this means something. What would mark me as an OCD case? I mean is it the revisiting of things that never became or are relevant now? I researched, and read coming out stories, obviously here i am reading this. worried that my past means something about my sexuality though i have a Women in my life that i am intimate with, and i am content with that though i have apathy from this situation and feel disconnected from my emotions and body just feel not here if that makes sense, but i have no history of waking life partnership or interest to be with a man other then being someone i am not on the web when i was younger. Would appreciate your educated reply to make things a bit clearer as to what i can do/should with these memories and feelings of fear l. Am i making myself into a criminal and being too harsh?
Josh,
A few thoughts…
1) What “marks” you as having HOCD is this: gay people do not spend hours and hours analyzing their thoughts about being sexual with people of the same gender. They are just fine with those thoughts. You on the other hand are obsessing about these thoughts and experiencing the thoughts as unwanted.
2) Also, you note that you currently have an intimate relationship with a woman, and that you are content with that intimacy. Gay men do not want to have sex with women.
3) I have no idea what you are talking about when you suggest that being gay would make you a criminal. I believe you live in the US and homosexuality is not illegal here. If by chance I am wrong and you are living in a culture where homosexuality is illegal, I encourage you to leave that country and start a new life elsewhere. Not because you are gay (you aren’t from what I can tell), but because cultures that make homosexuality illegal are miserable, regressive places that are hostile to fundamental human rights.
4) You ask what you can do about your situation and the answer is simple – get into treatment with a a therapist who specializes in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for OCD.
Hello,
I am a 25 y/o male that just moved to a new environment. Since I can remember, I’ve only dated and been attracted to females. Recently I’ve struggled with the idea that I may be gay and that the reason my straight relationships failed & im single is that I may have been secretly gay,even though I never showed interest in other males while i was in relationships. During my relationships I have had obsessive thoughts related to the legitimacy of the relationships (fear of being cheated on, etc.). I don’t have anything against gays but I am concerned about what my family and friends would think if I ever decided I was gay. I start analyzing different situations such as comparison to see how i look or speak to others. I’m really confused.
Thanks.
Anonymous,
All of this sounds like HOCD to me.
Hi Doc,
I wanted to comment again to give you more context. As a result of reading about the groinal response understanding, I have seen myself become far less anxious about the situation.. Over the last 4 months, I would be at the beach and look over my shoulder, and think did i subconsciously look that way because i man was there? And I would get depressed as a result. I’ve started to conquer this, and understand that it is nonsense, but it was consistently happening to me. Today, I masturbated and I was reluctant to do so, because i was doing better and didn’t want to have a set back. I had an image of a man pop into my head, and arrosal came. Usually that would do the opposite. I don’t want to be with a man, and love women, but this is extremely difficult for me. The symptoms in the HOCO explanation fit with me to the T. However, I’m starting to become depressed once again, and don’t understand what my next step should be. What’s the best way to fight this intrusive thoughts? Or maybe just not masturbating, because it seems to be a trigger.? My mind had become obsessed with this, and I just would like to rationally chip away at this. Please let me know !
Matt,
The best way to fight this is with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) focusing on a specific CBT technique called Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).
Hi.
I remember getting off to porn and this included straight and lesbian porn as well. On top of this my sex drive has been low and I haven’t been able to ‘orgasm’ with my partner who I still love more than life itself. This is what sprung my HOCD. I have always been attracted to guys my whole life, got butterflies on dates , fallen in love with two including my current boyfriend. I was so happy I wanted to marry him and have a family, but now this HOCD is making me question everything. I check out attractive girls and I’m not sure if it’s anxiety or if I’m genuinely attracted to them. I stare at girls and picture if they’re gay or straight andnif they have a wedding ring I feel relieved. I try to picture sexual situations with women to test myself and see if I’m aroused and now I don’t know if it’s anxieth or genuinely aroused. I don’t want to be like this at all. I have never thought about this stuff before and I want to go back to how I was because I was happy. I get anxious around people of the same sex now and I’m scared to hang out with my friends who are girls. I love my boyfriend so much and I don’t want to leave him or having this anxiety tear us apart.
Nicole,
This all sounds like classic HOCD to me. All of the checking out of women and testing for arousal is making things worse for you. Stop these and other compulsive behaviors related to sexual orientation and you will likely see improvement. A better option is to accept that your brain makes up weird thoughts, and to not value these weird thoughts as being important or accurate. They are just weird thoughts.
Thank you so so much Tom!! I agree with you, sometimes thoughts and images just pop out of no where and anxiety just fills you when you’re standing next to an attractive girl and when these thoughts/images hit and this I find is the hardest bit to overcome. But I will not give up thanks to you and your reply! I’ll do whatever it takes to go back to the days where I was comfortable and happy with my identity and my wonderful relationship.
Tom, just another two questions:
1) I have watched shows with lesbian sex scenes and have gotten super turned on, but i have also gotten super turned on for straight sex scenes as well. Does this make me gay the fact that I was turned on by lesbian sex scenes?
2) The notion of sexuality is fluid and changing terrifies me! Does this mean i could have been straight all my life and now my preferences/orientation has changed??
any help would be appreciated! Sorry these are the last two questions i have!
Nicole,
You report that you have been turned on by lesbian scenes, and ask if this is evidence that you are gay. Yet, you also report that you have been turned on by straight sex scenes, and you don’t appear to be asking if that is evidence that you are straight. The only “evidence” I see here is that you are giving far more importance and value to being turned on by gay sex than to straight sex. Perhaps you should consider that you are turned on by sex. Period.
The notion that human sexuality is fluid does not mean that you are now gay. It means that sexual orientation in general needn’t be viewed as a fixed thing. It says nothing about you in particular.
Hi, I’m currently in a bad state of mind. To be honest, I’ve never been a “boyish boy”. I played with dolls, had mostly girls as friends, was interested in fashion and liked a lot of things, which are considered typically girly, like music (Beyonce, Adele) or movies and series. Nowadays it kind of changed, i think. I don’t really see myself as being “girly”. But it all comes backfiring now, since all these things seem to be indicators of a young kid, that someday will become homosexual. And there is nothing wrong with that. But I just never felt like that before HOCD hit me hard. I mean I never fell in love with a guy and if so, it would have been ok. And now I’m completely lost. I’m with my girlfriend now for almost 5 years and I truly love her. Funnily she was kind of a tomboy and listens to Metallica and stuff. At some point I tried to convince me of the opposite.. Like if I can’t be confident in being straight, at least I’d like to be confident with the opposite.. And I started testing, doubting, ruminating.. And now it is all backfiring and even if I tell myself.. Ok .. Than I’m gay.. At least stop the ruminating and doubting now.. But it just continues and…
Jack,
You are spending an awful lot of time trying to convince yourself that you are gay. But you have had a serious girlfriend for five years and you report that you love her. I encourage you to STOP analyzing your sexual orientation, and focus instead on loving your girlfriend.
You don’t need to fit your past, your musical tastes, or anything else into a box called “straight”. Just be who you are and love your girlfriend as she is. And while you’re at it, STOP testing yourself. It’s not helping.
25 HOCD or GAY? confusion/anxiety/compulsive web surfing/nausea/loss appetite/no sleep
Pre-anxiety: always sexually attracted to women. BUT do admit that I have always noticed good looking men (prob more than avg guy admits). V insecure growing up (appearance/penis size). very into a girl in high school: depressed when rejected; 1st GF/first sex at 19: depressed when she broke up; fell for girl last year: depressed when ended. since: have hooked up with number of girls but also had ED a bit – thought due to alcohol&over masturbation – now think bc prob gay so no attraction. before all this, been to number of strip clubs. even paid for sex with girls a few times. 1st masturbation experiences were of girls on tv/pics/porn. Last few years over masturbated – from reg porn to pay for cam girls. loved to see girls give oral AND loved sight of giving girl oral- now think watching girl give oral was my gay tendency. 2 months ago: high and hanging with new roommate – thought: “do i like him” Since then: online gay test/imagining preforming gay oral (cant tell if repulsed or dont mind) always chew&suck pen in class – now think bc gay. feel loss of attraction to women. confused and…
Very Confused,
This all sounds like HOCD.
Hello,
My name is Sophia, 22yr. I am from China, and sorry for mistakes. I have been obsessed with the thought of whether I am a lesbian for many years, it is a great torture. When I first saw this web a few weeks ago, I was relieved but it only last a few days, then I started to doubt that whether I am the typical HOCD, cause my case seems different somehow. I have been thinking perhaps I am just secretly not straight and I was trying to deny it. I can not tell whether or not if I have HOCD or I am just lying myself about being a lesbian or bisexual.
1, I usually have romantic interest in the people of same gender, especially my teachers and actresses, they are usually femininity or knowledgeable. I am not sure whether it is correct to use the word romantic, I didn’t have sexual desire to them then and I never thought about to have sex with them. I admired them, and was really attracted by them. When they talked to me, I felt really happy. What makes me confused is how can I be attracted so much by them?
The thought first occurred to me when I was 13 in junior high school.
Sophia,
This all sounds like HOCD to me. Admiring women does not mean you are a lesbian – it means you admire these women. That is quite reasonable and has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
The fear that one does not really have OCD and is “in denial” is quite common.
Hello I am a 15 year old girl formally diagnosed with OCD and I have had every symptom of HOCD but here’s what’s really bothering me lately. here’s what’s got me stumped. I don’t want to be bi I want to be straight and if I am bi don’t plan on acting on it as it is just not me not my morals (i hope I’m not in denial) ok so thoughts about the same sex they don’t disgust me but I don’t like them I don’t want to have them as I want to be straight but I can have them like I can put the thought in my head and imagine how it would feel and stuff and I can imagine liking ( in a more friendly way though) a girl although I never have and have only Loved guys and have loved a heterosexual life. This is really scaring me the thought that I can imagine these things and situations regardless of if I like them or not and it doesn’t repulse me disturbs me I just don’t want to have the thoughts. I don’t want to be bi am I? I don’t derive pleasure or happiness from the thoughts and feelings they feel more unwanted uncomfortable and scary and threatening to my identity. But I’m scared that I could like the thoughts or do and I’m just suppressing it.
Lil,
A few thoughts…
1) Of course you can imagine these things. The human brain can imagine just about anything. That said, there is nothing special about the thoughts that you imagine. They are just thoughts, and they do not automatically have some sort of special “truth” to them.
2) It is very common for people with HOCD to obsess that they are not repulsed enough by their unwanted thoughts. Check out item # 27 in this article.
3) Everything you write sounds like HOCD.
Hello,
I am a 21 year old male and started questioning my long-term heterosexuality out of nowhere. Throughout puberty and the rest of my life so far I have always been romantically and sexually attracted to girls. Four months ago, a very close friend of mine came out of the closet to me and told me he was gay. At first I made nothing of it and told him that it wouldn’t change my perception of him as a friend. After meeting him in person a couple of times, I realized that to me he seemed a little bit different and instead of attributing it to his personality I started attributing the changes to him being gay. I questioned why I held negative feelings about people being gay and came to question if I was gay myself. From that point on I incessantly questioned whether or not I was gay, watched gay porn to test it as well as straight porn to reaffirm that I was straight. I don’t seem to feel any attraction towards guys like I did with girls, but the nagging question literally never goes away. I became conscious of everything around me and test to see if I’m attracted to my close male friends, to see if a passing guy is attractive to me. Any hint that I might be gay scares me…
Anonymous,
I wish I had a dollar for every time someone posts on this blog that they test themselves to see if they are gay by watching gay porn and masturbating…
What would you expect to happen when you masturbate? If you try masturbating to a picture of a cabbage, I suspect you will eventually get hard and have an orgasm. This does not mean that you are turned on by cabbage. It means you were masturbating.
Stop testing yourself. Enjoy your friendship with your gay male friend, without passing judgement (pro or con) on the fact that you have a gay male friend. Just because he is gay does not mean you are gay. It simply means he is gay.
I’m 28 and have considered myself heterosexual all my life. I have had crushes on men during my pre teen and teen years. I am single, and haven’t had a serious romantic relationship, so my mind attributed this lack of success to my being gay. Ever since (the past month) I have been distressed with this thought, because I feel I was living a lie. I keep asking myself if it’s possible to only know one’s true sexuality at this age and not earlier (Most gay people I know report attractions to the same sex at a fairly young age). None of this ever crossed my mind during puberty as well. The reason I am concerned is that I feel disconnected and cannot experience what it is like to be in a romantic relationship with a woman (I keep analyzing my feelings now and I feel I wasn’t like this before) The thoughts felt so real that I thought I don’t know myself well enough. This has led me to post here and look for answers and has slowly started getting in the way of my work as well. Is this HOCD? Thank you.
S.,
A few thoughts.
1) This all sounds like classic HOCD.
2) Never having had a successful straight romantic relationship does not mean you are gay. It means you have not yet had a straight relationship. The leap to “that must mean I am gay” makes no sense. Unfortunately, many people with HOCD think this way.
3) The reason you feel “disconnected” from feelings of a romantic relationship is because you have not had a romantic relationship. How on earth would you have the feelings of a romantic relationship when you have never been in one.
4) Analyzing your feelings is a common compulsion done by those with HOCD and other variants of Pure Obsessional OCD (Pure O). This analysis is not just a waste of time, it is destructive. Feelings do not require analysis.
5) I encourage you to read our article “Doubt, Denial and OCD”, which addresses this idea of “living a lie”.
3)
Hi, doctor,
Thank you very much for this article. I am a 23-year-old female. I had other types of OCD(I kept worrying about my health), I have now got rid of them. The thought about being a gay obsessed me when I was 14. Many people with HOCD know which sex they are actually attracted to, their OCD tells them the opposite idea, but I am somehow different, Although I imagined to have a husband and wanted to have heterosexual sex, I am attracted by women and never had crush on boys. since I was ten years old, I have been attracted by the women in thirties or forties or so, some of them are my teachers or movie stars, one was my therapist, they are feminine, mature and intellectual. I don’t want to have sex with them, but I am really baffled and confused by my intense obsession to them. Is it Oedipus complex or a love crush or just because I want to be like them? On the other hand, even though when boys hug me or touch me I feel excited, I’ve never really been a boy crazy, which makes me more confused and anxious. Anxiety also makes me feel less interest in opposite gender now. I have been starting to imagine to check if I want to have sex with those women( now I am really confused).
Sophia,
The last sentence in your comment seems to sum things up perfectly. You wrote “now I am really confused.”
Yes, it sounds like you have some confusion about your sexuality. You clearly state that you get excited when boys touch or hug you, while at the same time reporting that you have always been attracted to women. Maybe you are bi. Maybe you are gay. Maybe you are straight. Either way, there is no way for me to ascertain your sexual orientation via a blog comment. I encourage you to seek therapy with a therapist who specializes in sexual orientation issues to help you sort out your confusion.
Hi Tom-
Thank you. I feel what’s espicially weird is that I did not attribute much importance to these thoughts before (I also read your article and it seems that I am engaging in these behaviors). The thought came out of nowhere and then stuck in my head. At this point, it’s almost like I am confused about who I am, and who I am attracted to. And what doesn’t make sense is that if I were, in fact, attracted to the same sex, wouldn’t it have manifested in any way prior to this? I have a friend who is pretty, and I was admiring her, when suddenly I realized I could be checking her out and I stopped.
This thought led me down a road of other thoughts about me thinking if I could be attracted to the same sex. I also had some same sex fantasies and I felt anxious about it.
Could you explain what you mean when you say ‘accepting the thoughts and not attributing much importance to them? This is the part I find the hardest, and resort to thinking that it must mean something about my orientation. Again, reading your article, I realize this is OCD.
S,
You wrote:
“The thought came out of nowhere and then stuck in my head. At this point, it’s almost like I am confused about who I am, and who I am attracted to.”
That sounds like virtually every person on the planet who has HOCD.
As for explaining what I wrote, there is not much more to say about it. There is no secret meaning here. I am saying that your goal is accept the presence of these unwanted thoughts without assuming that the the thoughts are important. People have all kinds of thoughts that do not merit attention or analysis. They are just thoughts, no more important than the thought “maybe I’ll have cereal for breakfast”.
I have suffered with OCD since I was about 7 years old and have just recently started to receive help. I have had many themes but one of the main ones is HOCD. For me though, I am a female but I sometimes have unwanted feelings of attraction towards other women. I have only ever wanted to be with a man; in fact, one of my biggest dreams is to have a husband and kids but I am scared because all of my themes has always shown up as unwanted feelings. Is this normal? I hate these feelings. They feel so foreign to me and I don’t want them. Does this mean I have HOCD or am I in denial?
Jennifer,
You ask “is this normal”, to which the answer is: “for HOCD, this is completely normal”. The key is to stop analyzing your thoughts and feelings, and to instead accept that you are going to sometimes experience weird, unexpected, and unwanted thoughts/feelings. But you don’t need to analyze them, or take them seriously. They are just thoughts and feelings.
I encourage you to read our article “Doubt, Denial, and OCD”.
Hello, I’m 29 years old and I’m straight. I’ve always had several partners over the years. Until last year some bad events shocked me, a hemorrhage, an abortion, and shortly afterwards I learned that I had fibroids. I started taking medication not to menstruate and this shaved my libido. Shortly after I started dating the man of my life, it was always my dream to date him. Being that a little over a month ago, out of nowhere came intrusive thoughts, a horrible doubt about my sexuality (but I was never attracted to women, but the fear that this might happen to me makes me feel bad, to have bouts of anxiety !! I’m looking for things in my past that make me have clues about my sexuality, being always straight and never attracted to the opposite sex. All this has led me to depression, even leaving the menstruation medication aside, I’m running for nothing, my life has become a hell and I’m terrified of losing my boyfriend.
I am taking antidepressant (Luvox) and being accompanied by a therapist.
Amanda,
Examining your past for some secret clue about these unwanted thoughts is a completely unproductive waste of time that will NEVER result in a legitimate answer to the question “why am I having these thoughts”. The answer is simple – “because you have OCD and these thoughts are a symptom of OCD”.
I encourage you to discuss these issues with your therapist. And if your therapist does not focus treatment on Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP), then find a new therapist as soon as possible.
Hey,
I am suffering from depression and anxiety for over a year now and after i broke up with my girlfriend 8 month ago (i couldn’t stand it anymore having panic attacks in front of her and all that, stupid decision because of desperation) these exact thoughts started to bother me and i can’t get rid of them. I’ve got a therapist now, and we’re making progress but now I’m facing the thing you called backdoor spike, it’s horrible! I’ve got no sexdrive at all (except for a very few, rare and short periods) and I am simply exhausted of repeatedly checking myself every minute of the freaking day and having this anxious moments, where I am close to feel overwhelmed by this thoughts. I do try to let things flow or even go, but I always get the feeling it’s useless. Am I doing something wrong? Or is there something like ‘gay denial’? Am I going crazy?
Flip,
You ask if you are doing anything wrong, but you also note that you are “repeatedly checking myself every minute of the freaking day”. Well, there’s your answer. All that checking is a constant compulsion, and so long as you continue doing compulsions, your OCD is unlikely to improve much.
I encourage you to do the following:
1) Stop checking.
2) Discuss this issue with your therapist.
3) If your therapist does not focus treatment on Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP), then find a new therapist who does.
I think I’ve been doing better with my ocd. I no longer react strongly to the thoughts, but then I got thinking of why I don’t anymore. And I keep having these thoughts that are like it’s because you’ve accepted your gay and your gay.
Pom
I encourage you to read our article HOCD: 30 Things You Need to Know. Number 27 addresses this issue.
Also, you have posted eight comments here using five different names. This is a compulsive effort to gain certainty that you are not gay. Please stop.
hi doc
iam suffering from hocd for past two months i was straight and i dont even had that idea of being before the idea was stuck into my head but the problem is now my sexual desire is reduced alot,i dont even masturbate for 5 days i dont feel any sexual desire for my girl friend i was not able getting erection in sex with her i am extremly worried that my hocd is making me asexual or gay
Ron,
HOCD cannot make a person asexual or gay. Your reduced sexual desire is a common symptom of HOCD, and is likely a function of the increased anxiety you are experiencing due to the HOCD.
Josh,
You have posted multiple comments on this article saying basically the same thing. Repeatedly posting comments will not lead to relief.
Hello. I really need some clearance. I’m a guy, and ever since I was like 11, I was bullied at school by other kids telling me I was gay when I was not! Since then I began to ask my parents what that meant and why they thought I was gay and so I started questioning myself since then.
What I know I do have is a foot fetish with men, but everything else, including their genitals, thinking about kissing them, etcetera is repulsive to me but I still feel like the need to check and it’s so tiring (it has been like this since then and it has made my life so hard).
I’m 21 now and have fallen in love with a girl for more than a year and all but I just feel like I will never be able to have sex with a woman because of my fetish and my doubts (I recently tried but all of the thoughts in my head couldn’t even get me hard, no matter what I thought about).
I really need some help.. i’m super scared and exhaust of this issue. This is really urgent.
Tom,
Your comment is testimony to the diversity of sexual expression. You appear to be straight, yet you also appear to have a fetish focused on men’s feet. I don’t know if this really qualifies as HOCD, as you appear to be quite sure that you are straight, and the only thing that appears to be confusing you is your fetish for male feet. Based on this limited information, I am not entirely sure that HOCD treatment is the correct approach.
On the other hand, it seems at least possible that what you are calling a foot fetish is really nothing more than an HOCD thought, and that this thought is causing you distress solely because it leads you to worry that you are secretly gay. If that is the case, then HOCD treatment would likely be the best approach.
I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD, who can help you get a better understanding of whether your thoughts are indicative of OCD, a fetish, or both.
Thank you very much for your response. The thing is I’m sure I’ve got that fetish, but that has lead me to believe that I might be secretly gay and that I might be hiding that behind my fetish. I keep on checking for other males to see if I attract them or if I’m attracted to them, instead of checking out for girls like I used to do some years ago when looking for a romantic relationship. It’s frustrating that I do not know who I truly am and am confused all of the time wanting to know my true identity… i just don’t know if a straight sexual orientation and a fetish with the same sex can coexist. I’m really frustrated and confused, I need to be sure of myself.
Tom,
I reiterate my suggestion that you seek treatment in order to help you better understand your symptoms, and what to do about them.
I am a 30-year old male. I have read all four parts on this website about HOCD and have a question. I feel like I can identify throughout my life times when I have experienced OCD (fearing that if I don’t say bless you every single time my parents sneeze, whether they hear me or not or whether I say it out loud or not, something bad will happen to them, not trusting doctors blood work and having it tested by 5-6 different doctors, etc.).
I am in a long term relationship with a woman who I am engaged to. As a kid I always watched straight porn and in high school I started to also watch gay/bi porn. In college I hooked up with a couple guys as well as multiple women. I feel like the label bisexual fits me but as soon as I accepted that label I have been obsessively checking my attraction to EVERYONE and am scared that I could be in denial. I’ve always sought romantic relationships with women only but in your article you say you ask your clients “do you like gay sex?” to determine if they are gay. This freaks me out. I have enjoyed gay sex but not any more than I enjoy straight sex with women. I’ve never dating or marrying a man. Could this be HOCD or denial? I’m freaking out…
D.,
You report enjoying sex with both men and women. This sounds like the very definition of bisexual. I see nothing that even remotely suggests that you are secretly gay. For that matter, I see nothing that suggests you are secretly straight either.
You don’t appear to see your attraction to women as evidence that you are in denial about your bisexuality, and are secretly straight, so why does your attraction to men indicate that you are in denial, and are secretly gay?
You like sex with men and women. End of story. I encourage you to read our article “Doubt, Denial and OCD”
How can I stop unwanted images?
PO,
Trying to stop unwanted images is a compulsion that will almost always backfire. A far better solutions as follows:
1) Accept the existence of the unwanted images.
2) Don’t overvalue them – they are just images that come up in your mind and they are not important or meaningful.
Hi
After reading this, I can trace OCD back to when I was 13 years old and had some kind of Death-OCD, fearing death in a way that was indescribable. I am now 28 years old (Gay male) and throughout the years I’ve suffered Straight-OCD, imposter-OCD and now this past week Transgender-OCD. This one was the worst one (even though each of the OCD-episodes has felt like the worst one until a new one comes and feels like the end of the world.) I actually planned on Friday how I’d hang myself today (now I’m good) because I just couldn’t deal with the thought of being a transgender. I felt that since I was in such hard denial about being gay as a kid (admitted at age 20 even though I had sex with a guy from age 16 to 19 daily), it would be greatly possible that I have been in denial about being a transgender. I love watching any kind of porn with straight men having sex with Gay, crossdresser or female and always imagine I’m the gay/CD or female. But I’ve never wished to be a woman in the way trans ppl describe. I remember how it was being in denial about being gay and it was not this feeling. This panic came out of nowhere but my brain is telling me that I’m in denial.
TOCD,
This all sounds like OCD to me. It is quite common for OCD “themes” to change, sometimes quite frequently and/or abruptly. There is nothing special about Trans OCD – it is just another theme in OCD, and it responds quite well to the same treatment approach that is most effective for other variants of OCD, namely Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) focusing on a specific CBT technique called Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).
I think it is noteworthy that you report “I’ve never wished to be a woman in the way trans people describe”. That does not sound like a man who truly desires to be a woman. Also, you report that your feelings don’t match your earlier experience of being in denial about being gay while being sexually active with men on a daily basis. That’s probably because you are not in denial about being trans. For more on the fear of being in denial, I encourage you to read our article “Doubt, Denial and OCD”.
Hi there,
I’ve had HOCD for nearly a year. However, in the last few months it’s gotten a little better. I went from stages fearing being gay, then bi, and now, asexual. At least I hope it’s a stage.
I never really got into porn like every single person my age (18). I find that whole culture annoying to be honest. I’ve watched it a bit over the years and sometimes I like it okay, but I don’t love it like every other straight person. So today I was thinking about this, and I was like well… I must be asexual. This is giving me extreme anxiety. Ironically in stages of gay- and bi-fearing I always rule out asexual immediately. I want to have sex (though I’ve gone through a year or so of low libido due to depression, and it’s hard to tell anything anymore). The fact I’m a virgin makes me ashamed. As a kid my fantasies didn’t involve sex, more softcore stuff. I recall as a kid asking my mom why people had sex. “Some think its fun” she said. I remember thinking that was strange. Also, can SO-OCD extend to asexuality as well, or does not liking porn make me asexual? God help me…
Ethan,
A few thoughts…
1) Being a virgin is not shame-worthy. You’d be amazed how many people remain virgins for longer than they’d like.
2) Sexual Orientation OCD can extend to anyone, regardless of their true sexuality, and regardless of their feared sexuality. We have treated clients who are afraid of being gay, bi, straight, trans, and asexual. The core fear is this: what if my sexuality is not what I want it to be or what I think it should be.
3) Not liking porn does not mean you are asexual. It means you don’t like porn. Lots of people don’t like porn.
Hey, I don’t know if I’m gay or if I suffer from hocd, cause the question “Are you gay?” came out of nowhere and I got way into it. In this time I was about to meet a girl I texted with a lot and I kinda became numb and didn’t feel the love towards her anymore. Then I told myself: Well you dont need sex that much and you can live fine on your own right?” After that everything was good for 4 days, I started masturbating to woman again, because it just felt good, that I’m able to masturbate again. Then everything went down again, I don’t feel like I want to have sex and it feels like my head forces me to like man more than woman. I constantly compare men to women, but I just know that I like their big butts. It’s so strange. On new years eve there was a girl and we both got a little bit drunk and I got so horny that I wanted to have sex with her, after that everything got worse. I got a girlfriend and I always got aroused and got a boner when she kissed me or touched me, but I never wanted to have sex with her or something. I’m still a virgin and the thought “You are gay” sticks in my head with the thought that I want to stick something in my ass.
Dennis,
This sure sounds like HOCD to me.
Since I was little my favourite sport its been soccer, so one day my sister started telling me I was a boy.
When i was like 12 remember telling my mom i was scared of being lesbian, and that thought gives me anxiety.
So years passed and i forgot all those things, until one day my mom asked me if i liked boys because she found a group in my phone named “the lesbians”(but the group was a joke)so since that day nothing has been the same.I cant stop wondering if im really a lesbian ,if i see that a girl of my age its pretty somehow i tell myself i might start having a “secret crush on her” and that makes me so anxious. I cant watch anything related to gay people on tv because im scared that i might feel related to them.
And everytime i have a bad thought i have to tell my mom so she can tell me that everything its going to be ok.At the beginning i pictured myself kissing another girl and i was scared of that thought , and now thinking that its not that scary anymore and that leads me to think that not being scared means that i might like it and thinking that i might like to kiss a girl makes me anxious.
Then i thought what if i liked being a trans(I dont i see it now)but it…
Ximena,
A few thoughts…
1) What your sister says has no bearing whatsoever on your sexual orientation.
2) Ditto for what your mom says.
3) Actually, you DON’T have to tell your mom every time you have a bad thought. In fact, doing so is a compulsion, and it will only make your OCD worse.
3) Thoughts are just thoughts. If you had the thought “I am from Jupiter”, you would not assume that thought is true. So why believe the thought “I am a lesbian”? You needn’t believe all the nonsense that your brain comes up with.
I encourage you to read our article HOCD: 30 Things You Need to Know.
I’m a 15 year old female and I’ve always been attracted to guys. But in December I had a random thought of “what if I was gay?” I convinced myself I was just being silly and the next day I didn’t think about it again. But then I kept on thinking about it and now all I do when I see women is ask myself “am I attracted to her?” To which the answer is no but then I think to myself “how can I be certain?” I also try and avoid movies involving lesbians/females as I’m scared it will trigger me to think about it. I had a 2 week period where I didn’t suffer from this in January and I finally felt in control but one day I slipped and now I’m back again and in extreme discomfort. I don’t feel like myself and I’m scared I’m just in denial. I’ve always been supportive of the LGBT community. My best friend is also bisexual and I feel ashamed that I am having this much distress as I’ve always supported her. I do not feel like myself however I’m so scared to see a professional incase they don’t believe me and think I’m gay. I’ve also tried watching lesbian porn to test myself and I’m also scared that I’m not as into guys as much as I normally am. I’m scared that this will carry on forever
Jasmine,
A few thoughts…
1) You note that “I had a random thought of ‘what if I was gay?'” People have all sorts of random thoughts that do not deserve much attention. This is one of those thoughts.
2) Your response to your internal question “am I attracted to her?” has been “no”. That is likely because…you are not not attracted to women. You are just afraid of the thought that you might be. Welcome to HOCD!
3) You want certainty about this, but certainty doesn’t exist. Trying to achieve certainty is why people with OCD (including HOCD) do compulsions. It never works for very long, and actually makes the obsessions worse.
4) Testing your self by watching lesbian porn is a compulsion. So is avoiding movies and other media that you fear will trigger your unwanted thoughts. As I noted above, this will not work…and it hasn’t worked for you, or else you wouldn’t be posting this comment on this blog.
5) Seeing a professional therapist would likely be helpful if the therapist specializes in treating OCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) focused on Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP). Conversely, seeing a traditional talk therapist would likely be not just a waste of time, but may actually make your OCD worse, as they are usually clueless about HOCD.
Hi!
Thank you for the blog!
So I’m a christian, and I do accept what the Bible teaches about homosexuality (that practicing it is not right). In my earlier years I can say that I’ve been homophobic, but then I realized that homophobia is wrong and hateful so afterwards I didn’t avoid homosexuals or interaction with them at all and I learned to separate the “act” or “orientation” from the person and even though I don’t agree with their acts and beliefs I respect them.
But, I realized that I was strugglingg with HOCD for over a decade now, I just recently found out about this subtype of OCD and it literally covers my situation. I do know that I’m straight and any kind of homosexual act is rather repulsive than desireable to me.
So I found peace in having HOCD and that my sexual orientation is alright. Then now I started to have doubts because of my beliefs. They go like: “I might only dislike the idea of being gay because the Bible sais so or because of my upbringing.” or that the approach this site provides of HOCD doesn’t apply to me because I’m considered bigot bc having a problem with practicing a gay lifestyle. I’d love to hear your opinion about this!
Thank you.
Gabriel,
You asked for my opinion, so here goes…
This just sounds like the latest version of your obsession that you might be secretly gay. Basically, you are suggesting that you are “in denial” of your true sexual orientation, and that this denial is a result of your upbringing and faith.
Hi, im 32 male straight and happy all of my life until some intrusive thoughts about my sexuality relapse(had these 10 years ago).For 3 months i compulsively seeking reassurance the most hours of the day and then i searched about what ocd is.The problem is for example when i see random men i have thoughts-obsessions that i admire them not in a sexual way though. When the obsession start my body feels catatonic- ego dystonic,i can’t speak,im in a zombie like state and i feel fear and anxious if i like it, is like not be myself, is like another person is inside me. Then i start compulsions (magical touch) until i’m sure that don’t like it. When reassurance comes i feel happy again. When i’m myself my truly self, i feel happy full of energy and i don’t feel admiration at all. But a voice says you’re lying,the catatonic self. Is this happening because of my obsession-OCD or i have a hidden personality? Its like having two personalities, and its stressfull. When i have these thoughts it isn’t me, my happy straight self.Is my OCD invented this part?But what part is that i cannot even breath. It is because my brain obsess like this and not me?(i believe it is but doubt is here…
Paul,
A few thoughts….
1) Reassurance seeking is a compulsion and will make your HOCD worse.
2) Searching for info online about what constitutes OCD is just another form of reassurance seeking.
3) There is nothing “gay” about noticing admirable qualities in others of the same gender.
4) You do not have a secret “hidden personality”. This is just another lie your OCD is telling you.
5) Everything you write sounds like classic HOCD.
hi there. I’ve been suffering for about 8 years until discovery my terrible thoughts were part of a diseases. for years I was terrified by the idea of being a lesbian. When I started to treated it with drugs and therapy it was finally controled. I’m married and my husband is absolutely supportive. we are very close and curious about sex. Besides the hocd, I realize that I can also be attracted by girls because as a couple we had some great threesome experiences. but it´s still pretty hard to deal with my uncomfortable thoughts. Now I kind of accept the fact that I’m maybe bisexual, or don’t need to get a label, but sometimes I suffer thinking that I’m living a lie in my marriage or that I’ll break up with him to be with women even if I love him very much. It’s very stressfull and ‘m not confortable to share this with people except him. I think it´s unfair to put it all over him. I don´t kown exactly what is my trigger and why I have crisis even if I’m over pills and therapy. I´m affraid not living properly because of this problem. I live in brazil and I feel very alone to deal with this.
Clarice,
A few thoughts…
1) It sounds like you and your husband are into threesomes. If those threesomes include two women, and you are behaving sexually with another woman in these threesomes, then yes, it sounds like you may be bisexual. That said, I totally agree that you don’t need a label.
2) If you are having threesomes with your husband and another woman, and you are enjoying those threesomes, I fail to see why the prospect of being attracted to women is a problem for you. It is perfectly fine for you to engage in whatever kind of sex you want with consenting adults. It sounds to me like the bigger picture here is that you feel guilty about your sexuality.
3) It sounds like you are worried about how your same-sex thoughts impact your husband, but if he has engaged in threesomes with you and another woman, I am guessing he is just fine with it. I don’t see how you are living a lie if your husband is engaging in sex with you and another woman.
I have intrusive images and thoughts (I don’t enjoy them and they make me feel stressed for this I call it intrusive)since I was 11 now I have 19.The things is that I get urges too that I don’t like to masturbate to gay porn, sometimes I do it for check to see if I like it or not but most of the time I feel compelled to do this. I don’t understand why I feel this way pr have to do this but i can’t control also the fact that I don’t feel pleasure when I see it give me assurance that I’m not gay.But I feel minutes later questions about my sexuality comeback again like if you’re not gay why you see gay porn? If you don’t feel pleasure why you ejaculate? So I pray to god for to take the thoughts and images away and they go but comeback. I’m evangelical i’m afraid that I might be in denial but I don’t enjoy the thoughts with guys or feel desire to masturbate or have sex with them so it’s confusing and I also don’t care if people are gay bi or whatever. Do you think that what I have is ocd or i’m in denial? Or haven’t figure it out about my sexuality yet or am I crazy? I wanna be with girls but this doubts and thoughts doesn’t aloud this and I really I wanna know why I…
Anonymous,
A few thoughts…
1) Masturbating to gay porn is a classic HOCD compulsion, and it will almost certainly lead to a worsening of your HOCD, as you will almost certainly enjoy masturbating. After all, who doesn’t like an orgasm??? The problem is that, as you said yourself, minutes later, the doubt returns. So I encourage you to stop masturbating to gay porn.
2) You ask why you ejaculated if you were not feeling pleasure, and the answer is simple – you ejaculated because you were masturbating. You could be thinking about grass growing or paint drying, and if you masturbate, you would ejaculate.
3) Praying for God to remove your thoughts is a compulsion that will also make your HOCD worse. A better alternative is to accept whatever thoughts you have without assuming that they are meaningful, and without responding to them.
4) Yes, I think you have HOCD, and no, I don’t think you are in denial.
Hi! Lately i saw that if i look to a man i feel some kind of nervousness… i feel a cold shock and my hands and feet start to sweat! I tried to look at gay porn but idk, i feel that at first but then the nervousness starts to fade somehow and i get bored… then i look at straight and i dont feel nervous at all, i can get an erection etc but i simply dont sweat at all…
Recently i was m*sturbating looking at some girls pictures and it was good but then the doubt appeared, i simply thought that i should see if i could with men… i was looking at some pictures etc and then i saw a guy with “typical sexual clothing” and i started to feel nervous and sweating again and i think i could “do it” faster watching it! I simply got disturbed with that capacity and felt anxious all day long! Does this mean something? Sometimes i think and feel that “i would like it” but after thinking that i feel bad with myself…
Joao,
This all sounds like HOCD.
Hi, doc, when I was 17, I wore women’s underwear and masturbated. I worry when I think of these thoughts. I keep thinking. I’m so scared. Is this some kind of transvestic fetish OCD? Does that mean I’m like that when you’re this young? Thank you very much. I can’t get that feeling out of my head. I’m 26 now.
Hasan,
People do all sorts of things when they are young and exploring their sexuality. The only problem here is that you are torturing yourself with the mistaken idea that your experimentation is somehow an indicator that you are secretly a transvestite.
Hi Doctor, I’m 24 years old, this is my situation: I know that I’m an anxious person, through my life i’ve been obsessed with all kind of symptoms or sensations like my saliva, my breathing or negative thoughts. I’ve always have low self esteem, at age of 18 I was diagnostiqued with generalized anious disorder. Since child I’ve always been attracted to women emotionally and physically, my issue begins in elementary school when my classmates bulled me that I was gay, and a I grew with insecurity about it, but I always felt fine with my sexuality. Almost 1 year ago one day I begun to obsses with a constant sensation in my anus after going to toilet, like a tension/unconfortable sensation and i started to relate it to being penetrated. In my teenage sexual explorations one day I stimulated my anus and felt good and because of that I can´t stop thinking that I’m Gay. My obssesions and panic begun two months ago when I was obssed with heterosexual anal porn, and in my mind began to relate it with this anus sensation, intrusive thoughts and images of being penetrated begin to appear when I masturbate and now everytime I watch straight porn I feel like a automatic fear.
Daniel,
Lots of people, gay, straight, bi, and otherwise enjoy anal stimulation. If you doubt this, just try doing an internet search of the term “ass play” and see how many results appear. You are hardly alone in this interest, and it does not even remotely indicate that you are gay.
All that being said, it sounds like you have a long history of anxiety and OCD issues, and that this is merely your most current obsession. I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
I’ve known for a while that I suffer from HOCD. I’ve sought treatment with a few therapists and only had some real success last year with a one who suggest I take pole-dancing classes as exposure. No other ERP was done, however.
So for about 8 months my OCD was manageable and the worries hardly passed through my mind. I even had a big fat crush on my male roommate and generally started to feel like myself again.
The problem is I’m terrified of intimacy and of being in a relationship. I also suffer from depression and emotional numbness. This has made dating extremely difficult. In fact, I’m 29 and have never had a boyfriend/been intimate with anyone. Of course, I’m horribly embarrassed of this and it’s hard to bring up. I’ve only ever been attracted to men. Trust me. Through obsessing I’ve tried REALLY HARD to be OK with being a lesbian to no avail…because I’m not into women.
I have struggled with the obsessions again recently and am seeking another therapist. I feel like therapists focus on my lack of dating experience and the last one I met even asked if I’d ever been on a date with a woman. I feel like therapists don’t believe that I suffer from OCD.
Lauren,
A few thoughts…
1) I fail to see how pole dancing classes would be an exposure. Exposures are meant to expose people to what they fear. Is there some lesbian aspect of the pole dancing classes that I am missing?
2) Everything you write suggests that you are only attracted to men. You do not need to become “ok with being a lesbian”. You need to become ok with having thoughts about being a lesbian pop into your head. There is a big difference between those two things.
3) It is likely that your past therapists have focused on your lack of dating experience because you are bringing that up in session as an issue. And a therapist asking you if you have ever dated women makes total sense if you are telling them that you have never dated men and that you have thoughts about sex with women. Asking that question does not mean that the therapist thinks you are gay – it means they are asking questions in an effort to get a handle on what you are experiencing.
4) All that being said, you need to see a therapist who specializes in treating OCD. Most therapists truly have no idea how to treat HOCD.
I have all the symptoms of hocd but I keep thinking about something. In the past I remember having one or two thoughts about same sex genitalia (sorry if that’s graphic) however I have never wanted to engage in sex or be romantic with someone of the same gender. It was like the same as thinking “I wonder what I’ll have for dinner tomorrow”. However, I’m struggling because I don’t know if I thought this on purpose or not. Do you think this is still ocd?
Keeley,
This question is not significantly different than the ones you have posted on our other articles about HOCD. It seems to me that you are compulsively seeking reassurance, which will only make your OCD worse, not better.
That said, most OCD thoughts are, as you say, no more important than “I wonder what I’ll have for dinner tomorrow”.
I’m a straight guy, I’ve only ever been attracted to women, but I have weird feelings around one of my male best friends. I had the thought years ago that I was secretly in love with him and it has been very hard to shake that fear. It’s become difficult to spend time together and when we do hang out I feel anxious that I will lose control and make a pass at him or something. I’m also worried I’ll eventually break down and tell him about my HOCD, which by itself would be damaging/weird for our friendship. Do you have any advice?
John,
You asked for my advice, so here it is…
1) Everything you write suggests HOCD.
2) You say “I’m a straight guy, I’ve only ever been attracted to women”. No honest gay guy could say that. By this sentence alone, the notion that you are gay appears unfounded.
3) “Weird feelings” do not make a person gay. You are most likely over-attending to, and over-valuing, these so called “weird feelings”, which will naturally make them more noticeable in your mind.
4) People don’t just suddenly “lose control” and have an abrupt change in their sexual orientation.
5) Unless your friend already has a deep understanding of HOCD, telling him about your unwanted thoughts is a bad idea.
First of all, I want to commend your work.
English is not my native language, I am sorry for that.
For many years now, I’m afraid I may be a lesbian.
My psychologist said that i have obsession. She said i am not lesbian.
I shame to admit, i am twenty four years old and i never had boyfriend. No one ever show Interests for me.
My real problem started a month ago. I started to have sex dreams about women almost every night, In dreams i never had sex with women. In dreams i see naked women or part of body and i get arousal and sometimes orgasm. In dreams, I want to SEE a female body, and i LIKE feeling of arousal and orgasm, and that scary me the most. I ‘m afraid I’ll start to feel like this in reality and that I’ll never be able to have that feeling with a man. I am afraid to sleep because of dreams. What if this dreams means that i am in denial, but i can not accept. I told my parents, they will accept me if i am. I try to imagine myself with women but i cant. I don t want to be with women. But this dreams and desire and feeling toward women in dreams, scared me.
I often cry. i don t understand why i have this dreams if i am not lesbian. I would like to hear your…
Tina,
Dreams about being gay do not mean you are gay. These are just dreams. If you had a dream that you were a flying pizza would you believe that you secretly want to be a flying pizza? Of course not.
I encourage you to accept that you have weird dreams, and to let go of the idea that these dreams are meaningful. They aren’t.
Hi. This article truly helped me understand most of what was going on. However, there is something that makes this nagging doubt survive, and you kind of mentioned it. “Am I attracted to him” is the question that often pops into my head while coming across an attractive guy. And when I do focus on him, I feel a peak of anxiety because I feel like I am maybe attracted to him. Now I know we can find someone attractive without wanting to have sex, but why does it feel like I am attracted even if I don’t want to have gay sex? And how do you I know I don’t want that after all? Maybe it is what you called “over-attending” but there is no way to be sure I am not indeed attracted. This feeling makes me doubt that I have indeed HOCD, and prevents me from undertaking all the things needed to make it disappear – if it is really possible. It is very difficult as simultaneously, I love a girl and we are about to start dating. How can HOCD stick around in spite of this love I have for her, and if I love her, why is this ‘feeling’ appearing while looking at some men?
Peter,
A few thoughts…
1) All of your questions you ask here are quite common amongst those struggling with HOCD.
2) There is no such thing as certainty. You cannot get a guarantee that you are not gay, just as I cannot get a guarantee that Iw on’t die today. OCD has ling been described as “the doubting disease”, and you are experiencing this doubt in all its nasty glory. The bottom line is this – life his full of uncertainty.
3) Yes, you are over-attending to your thoughts and feelings. They do not deserve all of the attention you are going to them. You are also over-valuing your thoughts and feelings. These unwanted thoughts and feelings are not “important” or “accurate”, and I encourage you not assume that they are.
4) It is extremely common for people with HOCD to doubt that they have HOCD.
You said I am over-attending to my feelings but when these feelings in my chest get triggered while looking at some other men, I don’t think that I thought about anything prior to that. It seems to happen automatically. Maybe it is because I am unconsciously ever thinking about HOCD, but I don’t know. Also, these feelings are not sexual in nature, that is just a weird feeling in my chest, like fluttering or something. Can this get triggered by HOCD even though it happens “out of nowhere”?
Thank you
Peter,
It doesn’t matter what triggered the sensations in your chest. You are over-attending to these sensations and trying to figure out what these they mean. Then you are over-valuing the sensations as being “important” and assuming that they mean something about your sexual orientation. The sensations are unimportant, and whether they are “triggered” by HOCD is unimportant.
Hello,
Recently I have spiralled out of control with my HOCD (Well I hope its that anyway). Every day I am testing my reaction to gay and straight pornography to see my reaction. I normally get a slight groinal response to the gay porn but nothing more, however, lately I have fallen into the trap of trying to determine if I like watching gay porn. Every time I watch it, I think for a moment I don’t than moments later my mind replies with yes you do and then I get upset but can’t convince myself I don’t like it and I am just constantly doubting whether I do or don’t like it. I have been in a relationship for 7 years with my girlfriend, never wanted to be with a man sexually or romantically but my mind is telling me its what I want and I am in denial!
I am also suffering from a constant attraction to every man I see and a groinal response 24/7.
I have had all of this before around 4 years ago, I have had slight lapses in that time but nothing like this. I have also had health anxiety and a fear of failure my whole life. However, neither feel as bad as this.
I just need some advice and your opinion!
Cheers!
Luke,
A few thoughts…
1) This all sounds like HOCD
2) Testing yourself by watching gay and/or straight porn is a compulsion that will make your OCD worse, not better..
3) Analyzing whether or not you are experiencing a groinal response is also a compulsion that will make your OCD worse, not better.
4) You say you are attracted to everyman that you see. Even the gayest man ever born would not find every man attractive. The fact that you say this is just further evidence that you are paying way too much attention to whether or not you find men attractive.
5) Ditto for allegedly having a groinal response “24/7”. Your crotch does not deserve the amount of attention you are devoting to it.
6) My advice is simple. Get into therapy with a treatment provider who specializes in treating OCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) focusing on a specific form of CBT called Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).
Hey man, I’ve been having some really persistent thoughts for a couple of months. I’m 19 years old and I’ve never had homosexual thoughts until these past couple of months. Man have they hit me hard. I now have these thoughts from the moment I wake up to the time I fall asleep. I do a lot of compulsive checking to see if I’m attracted to other males or females. And the groinal responses are definitely present. I feel like I’m losing myself and this whole process has left some serious mental scars. I don’t know if I’m turning gay or if my sexuality is changing. I desperately don’t want it to be so. But what truly scares me is that my attraction to women is reduced nowadays. I want my attraction to women to return. I don’t know if I have HOCD or if I’m in denial I really need some clarity right now. I’ve always seen myself with women and becoming gay would really throw it off. I tried gay porn for the first time to see if I could get aroused and I got hard. That truly scares me I feel like I’m living a lie. How do I get these thoughts to cease and regain my attraction to women? Or is it too late for me
Damian,
A few thoughts…
1) I highly doubt that your sexuality is suddenly changing. That’s just not how human sexuality works. People don’t just suddenly do a 180 and become gay.
2) It is extremely common for people with HOCD to report a loss of attraction to the opposite sex. This does not mean you are gay. It means you are experiencing lots of anxiety and you are over-analyzing your libido.
3) It is also extremely common for people with HOCD to obsess about the possibility that they are in denial about their true sexual orientation.
4) Watching gay porn to check for arousal is a compulsion that will make your OCD worse, not better.
5) Trying to get rid of these thoughts (or any unwanted thoughts) is counterproductive. Humans don’t get to control what thoughts pop into their minds. A better alternative is to accept the presence of unwanted thoughts without taking them seriously, and without reacting to them.
How do you suggest I cope with the intense feelings of guilt that I feel for having had HOCD obsessions focused on my best friend for the last 6-7 years? I know they’re just obsessions and that I’m not gay but I feel terrible for having had them and fear what would happen if he learned he had been an object of my OCD for so long.
John,
Humans are not responsible for thoughts that just appear in their minds. Regardless of their content, unwanted thoughts that pop into one’s mind are not the equivalent of actions, and as such, do not merit guilt. So, while this may sound simplistic, I would say you should not feel guilty for any thought you have. Guilt should be reserved for actions, not thoughts. As for how your friend would react if he were to learn about your HOCD, that is his concern, not your’s.
If you find that you are unable to get a different, more realistic perspective on your thoughts, then I encourage you to see k treatment, preferably with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
Hi Tom
I have purchased and read your book. It was very informative and helpful. I have a life-long history with anxiety disorders, specifically GAD and OCD. It has manifested in almost all various forms from early childhood up to now into in my late twenties. I never knew HOCD was a subset of OCD until recently when I did more research and subsequently came across this site and your book. As you can imagine it has provided me with enormous relief.
However, I am still struggling with enormous anxiety and obsessions about being attracted to men. Specifically, the obsessions revolve around noticing masculine facial features and thinking it is attractive (no sexual arousal though). The anxiety severely escalated when I started being concerned about finding these features more attractive than female features and subsequently this is where things spiralled out of control..avoidance, withdrawel, frustration, anger etc..I have only ever been sexually attracted to women and had heterosexual relationships – something I don’t want to change. However, I can’t help being obsessed with the idea of latent homosexuality and it forever consuming my awareness at various stages of life.
Mike,
Of course you are “struggling with enormous anxiety and obsessions about being attracted to men” – you have HOCD. That is exactly what HOCD is.
Your goal should be to accept the presence of these thoughts without struggling with them. Just let them exist without taking them to mean something important about your sexuality.
Also, avoidance, withdrawal, etc., are not good strategies for managing unwanted thoughts about sexual orientation (or anything else for that matter).
Finally, you need to recognize that this idea of latent homosexuality is utter nonsense. You aren’t “latent” anything. There is no secret gay Mike waiting to come out into the world.
Hello
Last year after a year of HOCD, I realized that I was not attracted to men and that I would never be. After a few correct weeks (intrusive thoughts almost non-existent, false attractions had disappeared…), I almost overnight lost my physical/esthetic attraction to girls (not totally but almost). I lost the ability to find them beautiful. Suddenly I saw defects on their faces, I no longer found them beautiful, even those that were beautiful to me before that. I’ve been in this situation for a year. At first I thought it was a HOCD effect, I looked at pictures of girls every day to see if my attraction had returned, then I started to feel anxious, crying every night for several months. I’m afraid my attraction won’t fully return. Since about October, I don’t really have any anxiety anymore but I’m still worried my attraction won’t return or not entirely , I don’t test myself anymore but my aesthetic/physical attraction still hasn’t returned. I don’t understand why nothing has come back yet. Please, help me, I can’t handle it anymore.
Is it still HOCD? Will my attraction return entirely?
Lewis,
You are over-attending to something that merits no attention whatsoever, and then over-valuing what you think you see in yourself as a result of that over-attending.
Your current obsession is “OMG, what if I am no longer able to find women beautiful”. This is a fairly common obsession in men with HOCD. But by paying so much attention to this thought, and valuing this thought as “meaningful” and “important”, you are twisting yourself into knots.
A better option is to accept that your brain likes to come up with ridiculous thoughts, and that this is one of those thoughts, and to not assume that this thought means anything important. It is just a thought.
It’s probably an obsession, yes, I mean… I have trouble understanding how it can only be a thought, I mean, I don’t find almost any girl pretty anymore, it’s much more concrete than a thought. Accepting that my brain sends out stupid thoughts I was able to accept it, but again it’s so much more concrete than a thought.
Before, I saw some girls and I told myself that they were beautiful, that I wanted to be in a relationship with them, now I see these same girls but they have become ugly to me.
I’m afraid it won’t come back, it feels so real to me. I’ve always been the type to think about girls regularly, to look at them, so it’s really very, very complicated to manage. If it were just thoughts that told me “you find girls ugly”, I could manage it, but it’s not the case as I explained above.
Lewis,
You say that this particular obsession is “much more concrete” than a thought. How so? Can you hold it in your hand? Can you photograph it? Can you weigh it on a scale?
Of course the answer to all of these questions is “no”.
The thought is not special. It is not more concrete than any other thought you have ever had. It is just a thought. But when you spend hours, days, weeks, over-attending to it and over-valuing it, it seems to be more concrete – more important.
But it isn’t.
It is just a thought.
Hi Tom
Firstly, thank you for your book – I found it immensely helpful. I have a few questions/concerns which I hope you can address:
1. I often get confused if my unwanted thoughts are intrusions or compulsions. My brain will deliberately engage in an HOCD thought (it feels like an urge which I can’t control). Sometimes it feels like a thought is trying to burst it’s way into my mind and if I don’t let it in my anxiety spikes tremendously. And if I allow the thought it also creates anxiety anyway because I don’t like it. Is this common in your experience?
2. My latest HOCD obsession is that women are somehow the less attractive gender because in nature the males are often more attractive (either color or size). Now my brain is convincing me that this is true of humans and that this implicitly means I am gay. I know it’s irrational but I would appreciate your thoughts on this.
3. I have been on and off of Paxil for GAD and OCD for 6 years now. My emotional range is almost null when I’m on them and my libido/attraction to women is almost gone. What can I do to improve libido/emotional range without going on more meds?
Mike,
You asked for my thoughts, so here goes…
1) You are over-thinking about your thinking. In other words, this is all OCD.
2) Human males are not peacocks. That said, you are over-valuing the ridiculous thought that, because males in some species are more attractive than females, your thoughts indicate that you are somehow gay.
3) You should discuss medication issues with the physician who prescribed Paxil.
Hi Dr last night I had a gay dream .. in dream there is my friend I kisses him .. but her lips look like a girl and i said him in dream that “do you have girls lip” then he said “I don’t know ” then I start kissing him check myself in dream if there is erection .my penis got erected in dream .I don’t know I erect in reality. But I was enjoying the dream and orgasm in my penis.. does this mean I am gay ..?
Gaurav,
Dreams are just dreams and they don’t mean anything particularly important.
Also, all men with functioning penises get erect when dreaming. You could be dreaming about paint drying on a wall and you would have an erection. You can read more about this at https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dream-catcher/201406/the-mystery-rem-related-penile-erections.
Also, many men ejaculate when dreaming, regardless of the content of the dream. You can read more about this at https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/wet-dreams#sex-dreams
Hi,
I recently started having unwanted intrusive doubts about my sexuality. I am 19 & identify as heterosexual. I’ve never been romantically/sexually attracted to women and have only developed crushes on men. However, a weird pulse in my groinal area that I had to a woman’s picture and a past conversation with a boy in which he jokingly asked if I was lesbian, have sent me on a spiral of doubt. I started to read articles on how to find out if you’re bi/lesbian, analyze my past for signs of early homosexuality, and ruminate extensively. I’m anxious nearly all day, it has affected my eating and sleeping patterns. Upon stumbling on an HOCD article I realized I identified with a lot of the symptoms. I was relieved at first, but now fear that I am using HOCD as a form of denial.
I have had past irrational fears and my actions to neutralize those fears was similar (i.e googling, ruminating, seeking reassurance).I had an irrational fear of earthquakes, an asteroid impacting Earth, nuclear war erupting and finally that someone was trying to kill me. They are very different from HOCD, however, and I was wondering if they could be a part of OCD? They are not mentioned on the YBOCS…
Melissa,
A few thoughts…
1) The only people who pay attention to unwanted sensations in the groin area are people with unwanted sexual obsessions such as HOCD, POCD, TOCD, etc.
2) Another person joking that you may be gay does not mean you are gay.
3) Reading articles about figuring out if you are a lesbian is a compulsion that is making your OCD worse.
4) Ditto for analyzing your past.
5) Ditto for googling and seeking reassurance about sexual orientation.
6) The ridiculous issue of “denial” is addressed in-depth in our article at https://ocdla.com/doubt-denial-ocd-5342
7) People can obsess about anything, and there is no way for a simple questionnaire like the YBOCS to list every possible obsession.
Hi Mr. Corboy,
I’ve seen a therapist only twice now for what I believe to be HOCD and all we’ve really done is talk about my symptoms and he’s mentioned some passing comments about accepting thoughts etc. but there’s no real (seemingly) plan in place. I have had an entirely heterosexual past, I’m engaged and this seemingly came out of nowhere after I had an issue in the bedroom one night when I was drunk about a month ago. Now every time I even think we’re going to have sex I get anxiety about performance and wonder if I’m gay. I walk around asking myself if I get a sensation from a guy and then not from a girl constantly checking, googling all sorts of articles and then spiraling into a “this is clearly all just denial you’re suddenly not attracted to your fiance anymore and are gay”. Even if we do fool around or have sex, sometimes after I’m STILL checking if I enjoyed it enough etc. I can’t seemingly stop this cycle and I’m terrified it’s never going to end and will cost me my relationship and future that I’ve wanted my whole life. Any advice? I feel completely lost on how to address this and like I don’t know how to make progress.
Mike,
If I am reading you right, your first HOCD thoughts came about after experiencing performance issues during sex. I am assuming the means that you were unable to maintain an erection, or were unable to orgasm. We have treated many clients who first experienced unwanted HOCD thoughts after experiencing sexual performance issues. The thinking seems to be something along the lines of “OMG, since I lost my erection/couldn’t come with a woman last night, I must be gay!”
Of course this makes no sense in the real world – after all, there are lots of reasons why men experience sexual performance issues, but OCD jumps to the most threatening conclusion.
Googling, checking for enjoyment or arousal, etc. are compulsions that will make OCD worse, not better. I strongly encourage you to resist the urge to continue with these behaviors. Instead, accept that you had a bad night, and don’t assume that this means something about your sexual orientation. In your case, it almost certainly means something about your drinking, not your sexual orientation (i.e., drinking too much often impairs sexual performance).
I encourage you to read the following articles on our blog:
https://ocdla.com/hocd-30-things-you-need-to-know-5522
https://ocdla.com/ocd-fake-news-5740
https://ocdla.com/doubt-denial-ocd-5342
Every time i get intrusive thought and images about Men i also get urges to masturbate to gay porn and i end up do It because i want the thoughts to Go away and so i do in order to not have the images and makes the question Go away after i ejaculate i gain sure that i’m no gay because during the act i dind’t enjoy seing the porn or masturbating and i also feel no pleasure while doing and that give site that i’m not gay but feel minutes latet the questions comeback os This ocd ir denial?
A.,
What you are doing is a perfect example of a “compulsion”.
When a person does compulsions, they often get short-term relief, followed by a return of the obsessive thought. That is exactly what you are experiencing.
My advice is simple. Stop masturbating in an effort to get rid of unwanted thoughts. Instead, accept the presence of those thoughts without trying to control or eliminate them. They are just thoughts.
I’m afraid I’m in denial and it’s not HOCD. The thing is I get severe arousal/fear when talking to men, afraid my feelings for them are gay feelings and not just feelings that are normal between human beings. My mom left my dad when I was about 3 years old and moved to her home country, so I have some attachment issues as well, so intimate relationships has “always” been a problem for me. I think I have a form of relationship OCD and HOCD, the combination is a living hell. I also have energy-issues and this has made it harder for me to cope and get to the essence of this.
Can you give some examples of what to say on a self recorded tape to expose? I understand that it needs to be focused on the specific individual, but maybe you have some typical sentences that others have recorded. I’m a bit concerned about instead of exposing and diminishing fear that I’ll hypntotize myself instead to become gay! Where I live I will have to wait for a long time to get therapy and now that I’m ready I’d like to start up on my own while waiting.
Lost Cause,
Three things…
1) You cannot hypnotize yourself and turn yourself gay by doing imaginal exposures. That is not how sexuality works.
2) Your request for specific guidance on imaginal exposures should be provided by a therapist who actually has spoken to you and knows more about your experience of OCD than is provided in a one-paragraph comment on a blog. I encourage you to discuss this with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD with a type of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy called Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).
3) The only guidance I can provide you is in our article about imaginal exposure.
I have these unwanted feelings about being lesbian and not feeling femenine. I dont dress like a girly girl and it was hard for me coming to terms with the fact that i wasnt less of a girl for wearing a big shirt or a cargo trousers but there was a time when i finally started to feel good with myself in that aspect. i always knew that people or most people might think i’m lesbian cause i’m super shy around guys and i felt almost proud as i knew that no matter how lesbian could i look like the truth is i wasn’t but lately i’ don’t feel like myself anymore, it started with thoughts then it slowed down and i panicked again as the backdoor spike happened i guess then i wasn’t even bothered by the gay thoughts not that i liked them but i didn’t disliked them neither. like i felt nothing with those thoughts and feelings, i even enjoyed lesbian porn without feeling guilty or threatened but now i feel like i like everygirl that i see. Before i could admire a girl’s beauty as i wished i was them but now everything is blurry. It’s hard to explain, i don’t wanna be gay but how do i know if that comes from ocd or from the fear that someone who hasnt come out would normally feel?…
Skay,
From what I can tell, the gist of your comment is that you cannot tell if your experience is HOCD, or if you are just in denial and haven’t yet come out (even to yourself). This is a common experience for people with HOCD (and other variants of OCD). I encourage you to read our article “Doubt, Denial, and OCD”.
Hello! I’m a 36 yr old female that has recently been having unwanted thoughts about my sexuality. I have a history of being a “worrier” and went thru a spill a few years ago where I was convinced I was dying of every type of cancer and after getting throughly check out by all doctors, I remember shortly after a thought popped into my head that I’m gay. I immediately began to question everything and excessively worry. I would think back to playing with my barbies and making them make out with each other, was that a sign? I would think about looking at old sports illustrated swim suit magazines or Victoria secret catalogs and remember finding those models attractive. I never experienced any sexual desire towards females. I repeat daily in my head a serious of questions to help calm the anxiety, and have even tried to picture myself with my best friend. This has back fired because now I’m afraid I would leave my husband for her. I’ve never had feelings like that towards her but my thoughts are telling me i do. I don’t want to be gay. I have nothing against it, I just love my husband and our family and I don’t want to mess that up. Any guidance is welcome, thank you.
Andrea,
My guidance is simple:
1) Accept that you had a weird and unexpected thought that you might gay. The problem is that you have been acting like having that thought means something important. It doesn’t. It is a thought and nothing more, and it needn’t be taken seriously.
2) Questioning your past in an effort to discover some secret truth about your sexual orientation is a compulsion. It will only make things worse.
3) Ditto for the the daily repeating of questions in an effort calm your anxiety about your sexual orientation, which is almost certainly a compulsion as well.
4) Of course you find Sports Illustrated models and Victoria’s Secret models attractive – they ARE attractive. That is why they are hired to be models for underwear and swimsuits.
5) Find a therapist who specializes in treating OCD with Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).
Hi Tom. First off, cheers for your articles. They’re very informative, in-deep and concise.
A little about me. I’m 27 y/o, male. Not exactly the stereotype of masculinity, but never given much thought about it. I always thought myself as straight, it was just natural. Had romantic heterosexual relationships and all.
A few months ago, I got teased by a friend with a comment about “talking to my therapist about the fact I feel flattered when even males think I’m handsome”. I laughed and that was that, I’ve been teased before and never doubted. Come night, and I just couldn’t shake the idea out of my head. And then started analyzing myself, reading about sexuality, and having mental compulsions (such as remembering past sexual experiences and imagining homosexual ones to check my arousal). My analytic therapist says it’s just an outlet (along many others) I use to find certainty (related to the fact I’m scared about what the future holds for me) and that it’ll pass. I rationalize he’s probably right, but I just feel so awkward.
Will I ever be able to understand myself again? I don’t think it’s bad to label oneself, it helps know what we want and do not want for ourselves,…
MaybeanOCDThing,
A few thoughts…
1) This all sounds like HOCD.
2) The stray comments of a friend have absolutely no bearing on one’s sexual orientation. I encourage you to view your friend’s comment as unimportant and unworthy of analysis or interpretation.
3) An analytic therapist saying that your obsessions about possibly being gay are an outlet for finding certainty about your future sounds just like the kind of gibberish that an analytic therapist would come up with.
4) You don’t need to understand yourself or to have a label for your sexual orientation. Just accept that your brain likes to think up all sorts of goofy stuff that doesn’t need to be analyzed or figured out in any way.
Do you consider full blown erection as a type of groinal response or it is a sign that my orientation is not so black/white? i watched a lot of porn since i was a kid was very shy. when i discovered masturbation and porn it was all women all the time, didn’t even think about guys till around age 13 i stumbled across gay porn on accident, turned it off immediately however it stuck in my mind, i was obsessing about it for 3-4 years before i actually watched it and got an erection when i was watching it, and still do almost every t. it causes me a lot of distress and i always ruminate and obsess if i’m gay or bi or i have ocd. i’m still into girls definitely, i have a girlfriend i’m attracted to but i can’t help feeling guilty about somehow lying to her. even though through experience i can safely say i’m not gay, could be bi, but doesn’t stop me from obsessing and torturing me. i also have a lot of anxiety and in time, and always had obsessions about my health since i had my first panic attack, sometimes about germs and this gay or not thing. do you think this could all be a gay porn addiction? when i don’t watch it for a period of time i get anxious and when i do helps at…
Peter,
1) If you watch porn, you should not be surprised if you find it sexually arousing. That is why porn exists – to arouse people sexually. It doesn’t really matter if the porn you watch is gay, straight or otherwise – if you watch people having sex, you will likely find it sexually arousing.
2) You are not “lying” to your girlfriend because you find gay porn sexually arousing. I assume you also find some straight porn arousing. Humans are allowed to be aroused by all sorts of things.
3) People often find things arousing in fantasy that they don’t actually want to do. It seems that the forbidden nature of that thing may have a role in why that thing is arousing. Either way, it doesn’t really matter – you are allowed to be aroused by more than one type of sexual activity.
a little bit of topic, but is it possible to have hocd at the age of 47 ?
most of the people here are quite young , that’s why i ´m asking
M,
Age has nothing to do with OCD, and there is nothing unusual about having HOCD at the age of 47.
Hello, I am a 22 year old male and always had a spanking fetish. I used to masturbate to the idea of being spanked by a woman or by an older authoritative male, but I always masturbated to a picture of a girl while picturing my fantasy. I thought that I was straight and this was a fetish since I’m only physically attracted to women, but now I’m starting to think that I might be gay because of this fantasy. I’m now starting to doubt whether I want to be with a woman sexually or not. I want to be dominated in bed and now im thinking only a man can provide that and I’m attracted to that idea even though I’m not physically attracted to men at all. I was really turned on to being domainted by a woman and still am. I have been masturbating to pictures of women to try to prove I’m not gay but I find no relief in this and want to quit masturbating to get rid of this fetish of being spanked and dominated by an older guy. I know this is really weird am I gay???
Chris,
Your email is further evidence of the variety of human sexuality. So let me point out a few things…
1) Fetishes are not uncommon.
2) Fetishes about spanking are not uncommon.
3) Fetishes about being dominated are not uncommon.
4) People often fantasize about things they would not actually want to do their real life.
5) Trying to prove you are not gay by masturbating to pictures of women is a compulsion that will only make things worse.
6) There is no shortage of women who would be just fine with accommodating your interest in being dominated in bed. I encourage you to start there, and see where that leads you.
7) In the meantime, I encourage you to accept that you have unwanted thoughts about also being dominated by men, without assuming that these thoughts mean you are gay, and without assuming that you must act on those thoughts. They are just thoughts.
8) Remember, sex is supposed to be fun.
So… I have been dealing with this for more than half of my life (30s). I entered in sexual contats with transexuals and enjoyed it a lot. I had sexual exeperience with same sex as 10 years old. And even tough I’ve never in a romantic way wanted to kiss a guy, I feel that since I am not happy with my romatinc relationships with woman (always being dismissed or not attracted or afraid to love), I fell like my true self id to love dick. So in order to know this I must do ERP as exposing my self to gay life, goint out there and sucking cocks and being penetrated by man. And I am afraid I will like it, because I like dick, the way it feels nice inside and to suck. This is horrible because this shows I am in denial of who I trully am. I would love to be with my girlfriend and to be completeley with her, with a open heart, but my heart is filled with this doubts that because I like dicks in some small percentage (I see gay movies like 1% of porn, transex as 30% and 69% as straight) I actually am gay. I am tired of going to multiple psychological help that is not getting me anywhere. I entered and got out of depression and anxiety pills, but the did not solve my problem.
Lorinz,
I am guessing that English is not your primary language, so I may be misinterpreting your comments. That said, it seems to me that you may be bisexual. You state that you “like dick, the way it feels nice inside and to suck.” You also note that you have had sex with transexuals and “enjoyed it a lot”. Yet you also note that that you have a girlfriend. I encourage you to seek counseling with a therapist who can help you figure out your sexuality. But again, I may be misinterpreting your comments.
Please tell me how sexual fluidity comes in here. Research says sexuality is fluid and having a same-sex crush can simply mean preferences can change overtime. I am terrified that I may be sexually fluid and later developed hocd because I freaked out! I have convinced myself I have a same sex crush because I really can’t differentiate from other crushes anymore! I really loved to read gay love stories. Did that change something in me? One day I found a girl from my class attractive and really got worried. I think I checked her to find my own reactions,but from then on I didn’t even need to check. I felt extremely uncomfortable while talking but then again I think I may have liked it! Does this mean I am indeed fluid but can’t accept it because of internalized homophobia? Afterall I have been straight my whole life….I have read many articles saying that hocd thoughts feel real. When I think of myself in a lesbian relation in future, the thought feels true but at the same time a ‘good feeling’ comes in and then the panic comes. My entire life is now miserable. I have lost appetite and I try to avoid college.I just want to know how fluidity works. Pleasehelp.
Jenny,
Being obsessed with the fear of becoming sexually fluid is really no different than being obsessed with the fear of being gay. Either way, you are obsessing about sexual orientation.
Trying to figure out how sexually fluidity works is a compulsion that will lead to more misery. A better option is to simply accept that your brain thinks up all sorts of stuff, and that most of it is not worth analysis. I see no reason why your sexual orientation being either fixed or fluid would deserve much attention.
is it possible to have some sensation like mouth,anal or groinal responses ?
John,
People with HOCD often report that they are experiencing unwanted sensations of the type you mention. This is likely due to over-attending to these body parts. Anytime that one focuses their attention on a specific body part, they are more likely to experience sensations in that body part (or the illusion of sensations). But I am guessing you actually already knew that, because you used the term “groinal responses”, and the only people on the planet who use that term are people with HOCD who have read about groinal responses.
Iv never doubted my sexuality and have always just known I was straight. Never looked at a guy or ever had a sexual thoughts or found them attractive. Then last week I had a dream about a childhood friend who when we were really young kids once touched each other but we were so young sexuality wasn’t even a thing. This has brought on doubts despite no evidence and never thinking this way for my entire adult life. I have OCD in lots of other areas too and obsess over a lot of little things in general. I find myself doing the checks and thinking about and checking my genitals to be sure now.
Cyndaquill1111,
A few thoughts…
1) Despite the nonsense they teach in Psychology 101 courses, dreams are usually meaningless and unworthy of analysis.
2) Dreaming about a guy with whom you had normal childhood sexual experimentation many years ago does not make you gay.
3) You note that you have “no evidence” to support the thesis that you are gay. I agree.
4) You report that you have experienced other OCD symptoms. That is a clue as to what is going on here.
5) Stop checking your genitals. It is a compulsion and it will make your OCD worse, not better.
hello. I have some questions.Is it normal, that before the actual Hocd trigger the thoughts and groinal responses were already there but you didn‘t recognised it? My Hocd got to the point where i feel no anxiety but just pictures about naked womans i my head. Is it normal to feel like you are bisexual but you dont want to be but it feels like it? Is it normal for Hocd to feel like they Never Knew themselfs?
Magda,
Everything you write sounds “normal” for HOCD.
Also, you posted multiple comments today. That is a reassurance seeking compulsion. Please stop.
Hello i have a question. My toughts don‘t boder me a lot anymore. But i gave up to fight with my thoughts because i can‘t deal with this anymore.The idea of being bi is stuck in my Head like glue.i scored an 18 on the Hocd Test. But i am tired of fighting so i just feel like denial. All same sex stuff I did there are a lot must mean I am bi . I don’t wan‘t to be . But lately I feel no fear I am just tired. I don’t wanna mary a woman!
NigerianHopesHocd,
You wrote that you have a question, but I don’t see one in your comment. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that your question was meant to be something along the lines of “What is going on here – is this HOCD???”
While I cannot provide a diagnosis via a blog comment, I can say that your symptoms are consistent with HOCD.
Hi, is it possible that anxiety can be mistaken as an attraction? for instance, when I see an attractive man then suddenly my heart starts palpitating, but then when I try to analyze what I’m thinking I acknowledge that he is attractive but not in a way that I want to be sexual or romantic to that guy.
Samuel,
Two things…
1) Many people with HOCD wonder if their anxiety is actually attraction. It isn’t.
2) Analyzing your unwanted thoughts is a compulsion that will make things worse, not better.
My HOCD has been getting worse everyday, and just coming back with either new thoughts, reasons, or feelings. I am 16 and a male and I have a girlfriend. But when I try and assure myself I want to be straight, my HOCD asks “why?” Anything I do to reassure myself that I am straight, because I know I am, it asks “Why?” And when I know I am content with my sexual orientation, it basically says “No, you aren’t, you want to like guys.” and I really don’t. And then it asks why I don’t. I don’t want to be gay or bisexual, and because of sexual fluidity maybe being a real thing, I don’t know what to do.
Gabriel,
The problem here is not the thoughts, but your attempt to get rid of the thoughts (and the anxiety that comes with them) by assuring yourself that you are straight. A better option is to accept that you have these thoughts (including the questioning thoughts such as “Why?”), without assuming that any of these thoughts are important or meaningful. The more you try to assure yourself that you are straight, the more miserable you will be. Just let you brain think whatever it wants without taking the thoughts so seriously.
Thanks for the reply, another issue i have been getting is the new and stronger thoughts and now most of them are convincing, but the thing is that they can be convincing but they really aren’t at the same time, right? And then there’s the moments where I feel bisexual or gay, which I searched it up, it’s normal and it doesn’t mean shit. Just thought I’d say this and see what you think.
Gabriel,
You asked what I think so here goes…
I think you have HOCD.
I have anxiety/ocd tendencies¤tly suffering hocd 3 years ago I had a samesex experience with a friendI never questioned my sexuality&always identified as a straight female in a serious relationship with my bf.out of nowhere I am in constant battle with myself fearing I’m in denial,that I’m really gay,that if I was straight I wouldnt have done that,constantly thinking about my past,looking for reassurance etc.I always figured it was something that happened & I’d never do it again.Im depressed&so anxious it makes me sick I love my bf &want to be with him but my mind keeps telling me that Im gay because of my past choices.How do I know this isn’t denial &is it possible that Im just now having a realization that Im gay
SaraG,
Lots of people experiment with same sex behavior. Doing so does not mean you are gay. It means you experimented.
Sexual orientation is not nearly as important as people seem to think it is. I’ve yet to see a compelling argument that a person needs to know with certainty what their sexual orientation is. What matters is that you live your life in accordance with your values and how you want to live. If you want to be straight, then be straight.
As for being in denial, I encourage you to read our article about denial at https://ocdla.com/doubt-denial-ocd-5342.
What do you think about gestalt pshysiactrics?
Because I want to go om therapy, and in my country, the on with the best reviews is gestalt pshysiatric.
Thanks in advance
GestaltTherapiest,
Gestalt therapy is a complete and utter waste of time for OCD. Research has repeatedly and consistently found that the best treatment for OCD is a type of Cognitive Behavior Therapy called Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).
Tom when you ask “you want to have gay sex” i ask that to myself and i want to say NO! but now im so confused that i only think “dont know^ i want to go futher with life with my gf , but when i ask that to me and have that answer i start to worry that im really gay , and im just in denial, because my answer in my head is not clear!
Icepeed,
It sounds to me like you are wanting me to provide you with some sort of reassurance that you are not gay. I encourage you to read our article on reassurance at https://ocdla.com/reassurance-seeking-ocd-anxiety-1952. I also suggest you read our article on denial at https://ocdla.com/doubt-denial-ocd-5342.
I am a 25 year old woman that has been dealing with HOCD for about 6 years on and off. Right now, its defiantly on. I am at the point where I think this disease actually changed my sexuality and it makes me so so sad. Ive always had boyfriends and been attracted to the opposite sex. I have a boyfriend right now and its so hard. I am constantly just in this mind phase that im lying to everyone and myself and that I will be living like this for the rest of my life. I feel like my thoughts are making me enjoy the thoughts and I dont want to but im to the point that ive gone through this so many times that these are just signs that I am gay. it makes life really really really hard. I
Rebecca,
Everything you write sounds like HOCD. I encourage you to seek treatment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
Hi I’m a 19 year old male and have always been attracted to girls the issue, comes in when I think of gay things I dont get aroused at all by gay thoughts. But giving a guy a blow job disturbes me greatly and heightens my anxiety where it’s diffcult to swallow and typing it now makes me feel wierd and desurbed but my brain keeps saying why not? Even though i get no arousal in my gentails if a woman did it to me, had these thought for 2 weeks and it makes me feel physically sick and gives me a headache, been thinking of suicidal thoughts but probably won’t do them being gay makes me terrified as i think i’ll lose my masculinity and identity. And i really wanna believe Im 100% straight but this makes me unsure.
Van Der Berg,
This sounds like textbook HOCD.
I posted earlier that two male touched my dick at teenage made me doubt my sexuality though i am always attracted to girls. I am a porn/sexchat addict to only heterosexual porn. But i never get courage to ask a girl for sex due to fear that what they will think and also I fear hiv/aids. I had relationships with girls and never wanted to date a guy. My first dick touching was just to check how it feels to get touched by someone else and second time was forced by another guy and after that everyone used to call me gay and i cried due to that. But still I am interested in girls. Recently started doubting my sexuality as some disturbing thoughts are coming up that Am i gay and in denial?I spend half of the day thinking about these.Is it hocd?
Ljones1234,
I cannot provide you with a diagnosis via this forum. That said, teh concerns you describe alls sound very much like HOCD. I encourage you to seek an assessment with a therapist who specializes in treating OCD.
Im 22 and I identify as asexual bc Ive never craved sex, liked imagining myself in sexual situations or been attracted to anyone. For the past few years unwanted sexual imagery have been popping up into my head. Prior to learning abt intrusive thoughts, I thought this means I enjoy the imagery and that Im repressing my urges, which I found anxiety inducing. I know now the thoughts dont mean anything, but Id still spent ~5 hours a day repeating the same logical arguments or looking for reassurance to fight the thoughts off. Would you say its a valid case of SO OCD? Even writing this makes me feel eerie bc what if the specialists would doubt my asexuality and water it down to hormone imbalance or trauma response, which dont apply to me btw.
Hi Hader,
Thank you for your reply! Sounds like for some time now you have been struggling with these unwanted sexual images/intrusive thoughts, and to deal with these distressing internal experiences, you have been trying to use logic and seek reassurance to help as you say, “fight the thoughts off.” This can be the common experience when dealing with obsessions and compulsions found in OCD. To confirm a formal diagnosis of OCD, then having an assessment with a qualified OCD mental health professional is the way to go. The OCD subtype of SO-OCD, also includes asexuality, as asexuality is considered a sexual orientation. Someone’s obsessions can revolve around one’s uncertainty about identifying as asexual, which also might include identifying as gray asexual or demisexual.
Best to you and your journey moving forward!
I am 25, M, in a stable relationship with my girlfriend for 4 years. I have Hocd for 4 months with all intrusive thoughts and compulsions. My symptoms of HOCD reduced greatly thru CBT and mindfulness from counselor, like it’s almost gone.
But my fear changed from secretly being gay to losing attraction towards the opposite sex. One night I suddenly felt my erection was fading and felt anxious about not as aroused by the opposite sex. Then I experienced depersonalization while having sex with my gf twice e.g. felt disconnected from my body, could not feel any sensation, even felt disgusted and violated. Deep down I love her and enjoy having sex with her.
Is this something that people with hocd will experience?
Hi Kermit,
Thank you for your comment, and that’s great you have been successfully practicing CBT and mindfulness to treat your OCD! Yes that can definitely happen!! OCD loves to jump around, and it’s an easy jump to from HOCD to ROCD fears. If you think this is what you are experiencing, going to back to your counselor and/or bringing in your CBT/ERP and mindfulness skills would be one way to go in getting help.
Wish you well and the best to you!
I am 21 F and I’ve only considered myself to be straight. The past few years, I’ve over indulged in lesbian porn and would even picture myself in these scenarios because it turns me on so much. I’ve had countless crushes on men and always wanted to have sex with a man but when I picture it or watch straight porn I can’t get turned on. I developed crippling anxiety; I can’t stop thinking about this and truly believe that I have to be gay if I can only get turned on by lesbian porn. I’ve recently started ERP therapy but I’m not sure how to go about this when I’ve had a somewhat addiction to same-sex porn. Ive never had a crush on or woman or felt attracted to a woman before. What would be your advice for someone who has a past with gay porn?
Hi Gillian,
Thank you so much for your comment! Great that you started ERP treatment! That uncertainty related to sexual orientation obsessions can be so difficult, and is actually a very common OCD obsession. Porn can so be so confusing, beside for some being completely problematic. I have had clients who have identified more or less as straight (at least while not in an OCD spike), but have still enjoyed and even preferred opposite sex porn. My advice would be to just stay on the course of the ERP treatment, and give yourself some space on continuing to learn about yourself along the way, non-compulsively of course 🙂
Best to you on your continuing journey!